Saturday, October 30, 2021

Appreciate 1781 French aid to 1787-U.S.-proposed individual-independence

 Phil Beaver seeks to collaborate on the-objective-truth, which can only be discovered. The comment box below invites readers to write.

"Civic" refers to citizens who collaborate for individual happiness with civic integrity more than for the city, state, nation, or society.

Consider writing a personal paraphrase of the preamble, which offers fellow citizens mutual appreciation:  For discussion, I convert the preamble’s predicate phrases to nouns and paraphrase it for my interpretation of its proposal as follows We the People of the United States proffer & practice 5 public disciplines —- integrity, justice, peace, strength, and prosperity, “in order to” encourage & facilitate responsible-human-independence “to ourselves and our Posterity”. I want to improve my interpretation by listening to other citizens and their interpretations yet would preserve the original, 1787, text, unless it is amended by the people.

It seems the Supreme Court occasionally refers to it, and no one has challenged whether or not the preamble is a legal statement. The fact that it changed this independent country from a confederation of states to a union of states deliberately managed by disciplined fellow citizens convinces me the preamble is legal. Equity in opportunity and outcome is shared by the people who collaborate for human justice.

Every citizen has equal opportunity to either trust-in and collaborate-on the goals stated in the preamble or be dissident to the agreement. I think 2/3 of citizens try somewhat to use the preamble but many do not articulate commitment to the goals. However, it seems less than 2/3 understand that “posterity” implies grandchildren. “Freedom of religion,” which fellow citizens have no means to discipline, oppresses freedom to develop integrity.

Selected theme from this week

Appreciate French aid to U.S.-proffered individual-independence

Distraction from the victory of independence to the bestowal-of or license-to liberty is no aid to 1787 U.S. intentions: responsible-human-independence (RHI) "to ourselves and our Posterity".

At Yorktown, VA in September, 1781, England surrendered to France and the uSA’s Continental army, ending the American war for independence. In 1784, the individually cited 13 free& independent states ratified the 1783 Treaty of Paris. In 1787, 12 of the states proffered U.S. domestic order predicated on 5 domestic disciplines “to ourselves and our Posterity”. The disciplines are: integrity, justice, peace, strength, and prosperity.

So far, the faction We the People of the United States has not accepted the RHI that the colonial “ourselves” won. U.S. dependency in 2021 is split to English tradition vs French enlightenment: religious-conservatism v social-democracy; civic-integrity v agency-rulemaking. The Congress and the Supreme Court are accommodating-bystanders to career agents in regulatory departements who dictate U.S. subjugation.

The 1787 “ourselves” promoted freedom& liberty, letting independence slip, yet were divided: Antifederalists v Federalists, who, more or less, begot the Democrats v Republicans of 2021, respectively. Heretofore, the 2 parties struggled under an electorate that sought RHI yet could not articulate it, bemused by democracy v republicanism.

In 1787, French& English philosophy-competition continued. The storming of the Bastille on July 14, 1789 involved 98 casualties. Edmund Burke wrote to Charles-Jean-François Depont, in November, 1789, hope for “a government of real energy for all foreign and all domestic purposes, with the most perfect security to the liberty and safety of individuals”. Thomas Paine moved from London to Paris and argued against Burke in support of the revolution. Their argument, between two Brits, seems the basis of political left v right more than the U.S. Antifederalists v Federalist.

The U.S. may suspect “liberty” as too often taken as license to shed fellow-citizens’ blood, as in some U.S. Democrat-run cities in summer, 2020. Regardless, the U.S. may restore focus on independence, especially RHI to secure safety (Burke). The U.S. may accept freedom& liberty bestowals by the victor in war or domestic violence and promote the individual self-interest of RHI.

In almost 13 years, the USA and France can celebrate 150 years since France’s gift. It would be altogether fitting for the USA to propose and France to agree to revise the gift’s name to “The Statue of Independence” on “Independence Island” in New York Harbor, just south of Ellis Island. I hope to help celebrate from my den-TV.

Quora

https://www.quora.com/unanswered/Who-painted-the-1831-work-Liberty-Leading-the-People? by Diana Crisan

Regardless of the artist’s sensational subjugation of the woman, I’m happily independent of both French and Democrat license to “liberty”. My homeland proffers responsible-human-independence (RHI) to person’s who don’t want a dependency --- higher power, abuse, infidelity, indolence, tyranny, crime, evil, and worse. I think the faction We the People of the United States will keep it that way unto “ourselves and our Posterity”.

When I was a boy, in the 1950s, reaction to the community helped me accept the necessity to educate myself for the career most compatible with my aptitude, so as to pursue the happiness I perceived in each decade of my life rather than submit to the conflict and confusion everywhere. I served for 35 years one company who assured chemical-manufacturing viability& safety to the people.

Dependent fellow-citizens tell me I was privileged, and I agree: I had the public-school-opportunity to choose to take charge of my education rather than depend on parents, teachers, and fellow-students.

Now, in my fourth quarter century, I am glad I ordered my person’s subjectivity for RHI rather than for freedom& liberty. Only now can I articulate that appreciation for the USA --- neither France nor England nor other people.

I’d like to thank France for their choice to aid the English-colonies at Yorktown, VA to Cornwallis’ surrender to France and the Continental army in 1781, winning the war for 13 states’ independence.

For domestic order, the 1787 U.S. Constitution proffered 5 domestic disciplines (reserving religion to adult-personal-privacy), “in order to” encourage, facilitate, and practice RHI “to ourselves and our Posterity” unto necessity& statutory-justice.

To commemorate 1787 and express gratitude, I recommend re-naming that wonderful French-gift to the U.S. in New York Harbor “The Statue of Independence” on “Independence Island”, just south of Ellis Island in New Jersey waters.

 

https://www.quora.com/Which-is-more-effective-in-correcting-injustice-charity-or-grass-root-level-political-action? by David Klein

I think neither charity nor imposition corrects injustice. The only way to correct injustice is to constrain chaos in personal lifestyle and thereby encourage, and facilitate responsible-human-independence (RHI) “to ourselves and our Posterity”, in order to constrain civil dependency.

Thus, the civic citizen neither initiates nor accommodates harm/injury to or from any person or institution.

When 2/3 of fellow citizens are practicing these principles, an achievable better future will be evident.

It takes a human-infant a quarter century to acquire the comprehension and intention to embark on their person’s adult-subjectivity that may or may not favor the civic-integrity required for RHI. For example, an infant reared in a community of un-constrained tyrants is likely to choose tyranny. Consequently, a utopia with no civil-infrastructure for constraint is unlikely.

However, a culture wherein most people may pursue the happiness they perceive in each decade developing RHI, rather than subject to someone else’s vision for them, is possible under the-ineluctable-evidence rather than under legislative& judicial-tradition. “Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”, a more precise& accurate expression than any other “truth” modifier I encountered, including “Truth”.

I seek a better expression.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Republicans-portrayed-in-corporate-media-as-the-party-of-fiscal-responsibility? by Sheeraj Mian

Mian, I recorded gratitude for you question on my “appreciations” post at promotethepramble.blogsot.com. I hope this essay helps.

First, I can’t confirm that corporate media portray Republicans as fiscal conservatives. I don’t think they are fiscally responsible.

Merriam-webster.com informs me that “fiscal” means “of or relating to taxation, public revenues, or public debt”. Both parties always increase the national debt-ceiling.

I view republicans as erroneous preservers of dependency on Anglo-American tradition. The U.S. consequence in 2021 is first, Judeo-Catholicism rather than Protestantism partnering with the legislature, court, and administration, while the only un-constrained branch, the media, promotes social democracy. Second, the court runs “the rule of law” on English precedent extended to the U.S. rather than on the-ineluctable-truth (merely as a distraction from the fact that administrative agencies unconstitutionally write the rules that U.S. citizens must accommodate). Meanwhile, democrats are attempting to impose social democracy despite the U.S. constitution’s guarantee of a republican form of government.

The modifier “ineluctable” expresses the-truth “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”. In other words, the-extant-truth that yields not to reason, revelation, the-God, any other human construct, or to typical modifiers like “fundamental”, “liberal” or “ultimate” or “Truth”. We, the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” (including legal immigrants) must stop the tyranny by all four branches.

A culture 5,000 years ago suggested that female& male-human-being may choose to independently provide order& prosperity to the living species and to this world. In other words, human-being is responsible for the earth while the rest of universe is under other other-worldly sovereignty. Since then, diverse elites have attempted to construct otherworld mysteries --- ideologies& theisms --- that would usurp the suggested responsible-human-independence (RHI) in order to make theirs the supreme tribe.

The 2021 psychological consequence: while humankind is safely& securely exploring the former “heavens”, RHI has arrogantly developed divergent chaos, with $300 trillion debt, $29 trillion to the domestically-factional We the People of the United States. I don’t perceive any group worthy of “fiscal-responsible-party”.

In 1787, the U.S. culture was proffered on the principle of domestic discipline with unlimited standards of success --- to be determined by posterity’s Posterity. The U.S. Constitution provides for amendment by “ourselves and our Posterity” under 5 disciplines, to achieve independence rather than bestow liberty. Commensurate with the 1776 declaration of war for independence to “the good People of these Colonies”, the 1787 Constitution separates church and state. The 1787 U.S. reserved to personal-privacy the individual’s choice to develop a religion or not.

Each U.S. citizen may (choose to) ponder the 1787 Constitution, particularly its preamble, which has 2 sentences: presentation of the U.S. republic and statement of the republic’s intentions. The morning, my interpretation of the intentions is:  The civic people of the United States encourage, facilitate, and practice 5 domestic disciplines --- integrity, justice, peace, strength, and prosperity, “in order to” develop statutory justice “to ourselves and our Posterity”. A civic-people cannot warrant each other’s life, liberty, property, religion, and pursuit of happiness; however, they may choose to encourage, facilitate, and practice the 5 disciplines needed for the civic-integrity needed for RHI.

But the 1788 elites who represented the people in their states were divided, neglecting civic-integrity, between issues including: Federalism v states’ rights: British-conservationism v French& liberalism; metaphysics v physics& progeny; “nature” v reason; presidential-monarchy v representative-republicanism; communitarianism v individualism; necessity& justice v tradition; self-discipline v coercion& force; freedom& liberty v independence.

And Thomas Paine, in “The Crisis” inspired& motivated non-loyalist-colonists to exonerate Nature’s-God. They took full responsibility for killing fellow-subject-invaders in red coats. Paine moved to London in 1787 and entered debate with Edmund Burke (a Catholic-tolerant student of John Locke) regarding the French Revolution. Their argument became the basis of left v right political competition in the U.S., affecting our lives today.

The French decade of bloodletting, 1789 through 1799, negates any notion that “liberty” is preferred to RHI. After the French& Indian War between England& the colonists v France, the USA won independence in 1781 when Cornwallis surrendered to France and the Continental army at Yorktown, VA, USA. Then, in 1789, the U.S. forfeited the independence codified in the 1787 Constitution, when Congress imposed the 1791 Bill of Rights, mimicking England’s 1689 Bill of Rights as much as possible. Today, the U.S. right v left division can, regrettably, be traced to Burke v Paine: 2 Englishmen.

Nevertheless, the continental dots extend from Federalists --- Washington, Hamilton, Adams, and political-Madison with their strong central government, to religious conservatism that mimics England’s Chapter XI Machiavellianism and Burke. Yet the right cannot claim fiscal responsibility. And from Antifederalists (who fought for individual-independence to fellow citizens) --- Jefferson, before-change-Madison, and Monroe, to social democracy that does not admit to the U.S. republic; often touts liberty, equality, and brotherhood; promotes Alinskly-Marxist organizations; and is happily loading their descendants with endless debt.

We, the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” can stop the misery& loss, first, by amending the First Amendment so as to encourage, facilitate, and practice civic RHI rather than accommodate religion-Congress-Court partnership. Establish independence from England v France competition at last.

https://www.quora.com/What-are-inherently-bad-features-of-politics? by Roger Cassiano Ribeiro Ramos

Human being may, from infancy through their first quarter-century, acquire the comprehension& intention to act on necessity& justice. Most cultures inculcate the perception that church and state are higher powers the individual just has to live with. Their private life is so busy struggling with a confused& conflicted world, they happily yield to a church-state partnership that determines their future. After all, their 2 parents, 4 grandparents, and 8 great-grandparents survived the system, they believe.

They never consider the 5,000 year-old suggestion that female&male-human-being may constrain chaos in their way of living. Consequently, they never examine their ancestors’ participations in conflicts, and merely repeat the tradition. Meanwhile, the people who spend the time& energy to gain power and make political decisions tyrannize the proudly non-political fellow-citizens.

Secondly, some people subrogate their self-interest in politics to an association or party and thereby enslave themselves to the happiness someone else has for them. Some are even soldiers for AMO leaders (Alinsky-Marxist organizations) or the opposition.

For example, many Christian conservatives could not separate church& state enough to vote for Donald Trump, and are now facing Democrat-Party economic inflation; the Chinese Communist Party pandemic, technology theft, and Internet intrusion; no border protection; increasing entitlements to illegal aliens; runaway debt; alien power in the U.S.; and no known remedy.

We, the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” can end the loss& misery by restoring the 1787 U.S. intentions together with the 1776 declaration of domestic independence; that is to say, stop depending on English legal opinion and Church of England tradition.

The first step is to amend the First Amendment so as to encourage, facilitate, and practice civic responsible-human-independence (RHI) rather than accommodate the tyranny of now Judeo-Christian-Congress partnership. Let Parliament be “divine” but hold Congress accountable to RHI.

We may choose an achievable better future by accepting an ancient idea: constrain chaos by acting on necessity& justice and holding government accountable. Leave the pursuit of religion/none to personal privacy.

https://www.quora.com/Which-is-better-to-have-one-unifying-ideology-in-a-community-country-or-to-have-different-ideologies-How-would-that-impact-the-community-or-society? by Lin

I don’t know the-ineluctable-truth; that is, the-truth “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”.

I think a culture with a supermajority, say 2/3 civic-citizens, who both 1) constrain chaos in their personal way of living and 2) encourage, facilitate, and practice necessity& justice by holding government accountable is better.

 A culture in the Middle East 5,000 years ago suggested, in 2021 awareness, that female& male-human-being may provide order& prosperity to the living species and to the earth. None of the cultures that evolved since then have advocated living under the choice to 1) constrain chaos in personal living and 2) fund both law-enforcement and research to discover and enact statutory justice. Instead, thinkers construct ideologies and utopia that do not appreciate the “may” in the ancient suggestion.

Being human entails the individual power, the individual energy, and the individual authority (HIPEA) to choose rather than constrain chaos. Thus, there are diverse dependencies: religion, welfare, abuse, infidelity, crime, evil, tyranny, and worse. Human being acts in perceived self-interest. The child reared in unconstrained crime may think crime pays. And so far, no culture has inculcated in their youth, adults, churches, and local, state, and federal governments the principle that responsible-human-independence is in the person’s self-interest.

We, the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” (including legal immigrants) can restore to the U.S. the 1787 Constitution’s and 1776 Declaration’s intentions to establish 5 domestic disciplines --- integrity, justice, peace, strength, and prosperity, “in order to” encourage, facilitate, and practice responsible-human-independence to “ourselves and our Posterity”. The first step is to amend the First Amendment so as to proffer civic humble-integrity rather than civil religious-pride.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-relationship-between-human-rights-and-poverty-reduction? by Harra Mae Pañales

Necessity& justice (N& J) demand that female& male-human-being constrain chaos in this world --- behave with responsible-human-independence (RHI). The aware& informed person may comprehend, encourage, and practice (N& J) or not. In other words, human being may choose to transfer childhood dependency on parents to government, to a personal-God, or to accommodating fellow-citizens.

Whereas a foal stands on 4 legs 1 hour after delivery, it takes a human-newborn 11 months to stand on 2 feet. And it takes a quarter century for typical human being to complete the wisdom-building parts of their person’s brain. Then, they may, over the next 1-2 quarter centuries acquire the experiences& observations that persuade them that RHI is in their best interest.

Thus, N& J demand that civic-citizens both constrain chaos in their way of living and constrain dependencies, including: attempting to develop a personal-God that will usurp RHI, indolence, abuse, infidelity, crime, evil, tyranny, and worse.

If a civic life is comprised of work, study, and leisure, the minimum N& J for each person would be to earn enough to pay for their living, taxes, and savings for retirement. If 2/3 of citizens practiced RHI, they’d need to earn 1/3 extra to sustain the average dependent, or 150% of their personal needs.

We understand that our homo-branch, sapiens, is 300,000 years old, and the N& J suggestion was first expressed 5,000 years ago in Sumer. However, elites within tribes have always claimed knowledge with which to empower their tribe to supremacy in the world, often through a personal-God that usurps RHI. In other words, instead of the tribe behaving for N& J, heir tribal-God would deliver them from that humility.

Instead of educating all youth to accept these principles and take charge to acquire comprehension& intention to be complete human being, elites influence government so as to favor their own. The favor starts with elite education, about which I know little. At age 78, I have a book to read about it.

The second major element is the economic system. Career politicians maintain a theory of economic expansion. With constant expansion, government revenues always increase. And as long as commerce is increasing, entrepreneurs can claim as much profit as the consumer will pay. And if government subsidizes the consumer, there’s no limit to the profits entrepreneurs take. Most people just want to live, without taking on the difficult work and risk of providing new, necessary products& services: the entrepreneur deserves viable reward. Competitive grocery businesses take 1 to 3% profit. When an entrepreneur creates an un-needed business, corrupt government supports them anyway, so as to keep the economy expanding. For example, the gender-change entrepreneurs prey on adolescent children, and the U.S. government views it as an expansion of commerce.

The only valid human right I can cite is the opportunity to develop RHI, and that starts with considering& accepting human being. Instead, the U.S. Congress, in 1791, imposed the tradition that first you are a property of the-God, and Congress is in charge of how property is to be treated. The U.S. Supreme Court aids this tyranny over civic-people, for example in Greece v Galloway, 2014.

We, the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” (includes legal immigrants) can begin to reform to the intentions of the 1787 U.S. Constitution and the 1776 Declaration with its “Nature’s God” instead of the English Trinity. The first step is to amend the First Amendment in order to encourage, facilitate, and practice RHI instead of legally-imposed-religious-hope.

https://www.quora.com/Do-you-detest-people-who-have-a-lower-standard-than-you? by D. Lowe

Not at all. In fact, I am intolerant of tolerance toward my subjectivity in choosing humble-integrity by which to gage my personal integrity. When I perceive the other party is tolerant of my self-doubted political opinion, I change the subject to the weather, sports, or other small talk:  They will not learn one more sincere thought from me, until they demonstrate sufficient humility to lessen their pride. I fully accept that I could be mistaken: I don’t know the-ineluctable-truth. However, if the other party does not try to return to the serious topic, I feel they confirmed my perception.

Physically, to assure my preparedness, I trained on how to react to a gun at my nose. I feel it’s an obligation and self-interest to be strong in defense of fellow-citizens, especially self and family.

The person who pointed a gun at my nose might not fare well in the actions I take, but there would be neither hate nor detestation in my choice to take control. In constraining the offender for first responders to arrive, I would be as gentle as possible.

My intention in calling-in aid would be secondarily for the offender to reform, leaving it to statutory justice as to whether any penalties would be suffered. If I just let them walk away, I’d feel guilty of hate.

https://www.quora.com/What-makes-human-being-equal? by Felix Philip

Mr. Philip, yours is a teaching question, and I show my gratitude on my “appreciations” post at promotethepreamble.blogspot.com.

Human being is born totally ignorant in a confused and conflicted community& world. Unlike the foal, in 1 hour standing on 4 legs, human being takes 11 months to stand on 2 legs. Human being takes about a quarter century to complete constructing the wisdom-building parts of the brain. Psychological maturity --- responsible-human-independence (RHI) to both physical and psychological constraints --- requires 2 to 3 more quarter centuries if adolescence is surpassed.

Human being can acquire the individual power, the individual energy, and the individual authority (HIPEA) to pursue humble-integrity and may choose to develop either RHI or a dependency. Among the dependencies are reason, indolence, abuse, infidelity, evil, tyranny, and worse. Developing RHI requires personal-subjection to the-ineluctable-truth, most of which humankind does not know.

“Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”. That word emerged in 1571 translation from an older language, and by 1906 was used to with “truth”, both as “ineluctable truth” and as “the ineluctable truth”. I add two hyphens to invite the reader not to lessen the precision& accuracy of “the-ineluctable-truth” while I listen for a better expression. Obviously, the liberal-arts professionals have “conserved” the people’s opportunity to avoid, change, and resist. Why? Opportunism?

Since no culture inculcates these principles in their members, human being is born with equal opportunity to discover them. I read, write, and listen, intending to reform human-education departments --- politics, in order to encourage, facilitate, and practice RHI.

https://www.quora.com/Do-you-believe-that-Americans-are-currently-being-underestimated-in-their-commitment-to-freedom-and-the-courage-that-many-will-display-to-protect-those-freedoms-Why-or-why-not? by Steve Blad

I do.

Not only that, I returned to my Baptist church after 30 years’ absence with a hope to aid reform with a message: there is more to be learned from the metaphysical Jesus than from precious blood. I’m not willing to say, than from the body of Jesus, because the members of my church are essential to my maturing. (In other words, I “blame” them for inspiring me to take 30 years off to discover myself: not elect to believe Jesus Christ, yet perhaps elect to believe the-God. I don’t know.

Recently, I discovered that the first literature my church relies on suggests that female& male-human-being may independently provide order& prosperity to the living species and to the world. I call it choosing to be civic-citizens and practicing responsible-human-independence (RHI). Then, right away, the literature represents a culture and its conversant-God, who chose them for kingship to the world. The rest of the literature is about tribes competing for their-God to usurp RHI in their culture’s favor.

Furthermore, I can make the case that the Jesus of “before Abraham was born I AM” is the author of Genesis 1:26-28’s suggestion to constrain chaos on earth. Thus, humankind can get the metaphorical message to constrain chaos in self-interest, while diverse believers continue to pursue the hope& comfort of spiritual pursuits or other responsible happiness.

We’ll see if my church and others can choose an unfamiliar subjectivity regarding the-God to whom everyone may reserve sufficient humility.

This is a matter of establishing independence after 233 years of Anglo-American tyranny imposed by the first Congress. We, the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” may amend the First Amendment so as to promote civic humble-integrity rather than civil religious-pride.

https://www.quora.com/I-pursue-the-right-the-true-and-the-good-I-aspire-for-the-good-future-How-about-you? by Spencer Ferri

I write to urge the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” to amend the First Amendment so as to encourage, facilitate, and practice the civic-integrity required for responsible-human-independence (RHI) rather than Congressional-religious-pride.

Will you help make it happen?

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-meaning-of-the-phrase-inalienable-right? by Dhruval Patel

“Inalienable right” is a reasonable interpretation of John Locke fantasy in “Two Treatises of Government”, 1690: “The obligations of the law of nature cease not in society, but only in many cases are drawn closer, and have by human laws known penalties annexed to them, to inforce their observation. Thus the law of nature stands as an eternal rule to all men, legislators as well as others. The rules that they make for other men's actions, must, as well as their own and other men's actions, be conformable to the law of nature, i.e. to the will of God, of which that is a declaration, and the fundamental law of nature being the preservation of mankind, no human sanction can be good, or valid against it.”

Thus, Lockean “law of nature” is “the will of God”. It’s a false premise, because no human or society knows either the will of their-God or that the-God exists.

The only reliable human-right I am aware of is the opportunity to develop humble-integrity to the laws of physics and its progeny, including mathematics, the chemistries, biology, psychology, fiction, in fact everything that exists in any era.

330 years ago, John Locke chose to refute Robert Filmer’s subjectivity. Likewise, in 2021, we may choose to ignore Lockean subjectivity. We may accept that neither government nor the-God will usurp humankind’s responsibility to constrain chaos in this world. To the individual, that means to constrain chaos in personal behavior.

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-rule-of-law-important? by Okoro Mark Uchenna

Humankind has known for about 5,000 years the suggestion from necessity& justice that each human being may constrain chaos in their way of living, in order to encourage, facilitate, and practice responsible pursuit of personal-happiness rather than submit to “communal-happiness” impositions to them. I call this responsible-human-independence (RHI) by civic citizens, where “civic” refers to fidelity in human connections more than submission to civil rules.

The person who accepts that they are a human being, may discover the individual power, the individual energy, and the individual authority (HIPEA) to develop humble integrity. They may choose humility to either RHI or to a dependency.

If RHI, they maintain “I don’t know” when they don’t know and do the work to discover the-ineluctable-truth if they need to know. “Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”, a word which the liberal-arts professionals have hidden from the people, leaving them with manipulated truths, popularly called “science” and “ethics”.

Research first discovers the-ineluctable-evidence and then, if necessary, invents any new instruments of perception needed to approach the-ineluctable-truth. Before this process was understood, research was deemed unreliable in comparison with reason. However, research routinely corrects reason. Research is so reliable Jeff Bezos recently took a few passengers to weightlessness 65 miles above earth and back, in safety& security.

However, not every person is aware of civic-citizenship. In fact, no culture inculcates RHI. Consequently, many people are in a state of dependency: indolence, submission to an ideology, infidelity, abuse, crime, evil, tyranny, and worse. In order to assure a civic-people the opportunity to develop humble-integrity, the “ourselves and our Posterity” at any time must fund law-enforcement and the research to provide statutory justice.

So far, the people have counted on judicial opinion for law enforcement, and the consequence is chaos. Therefore, the basis of law-enforcement must be revised to the-ineluctable-truth. Once that is accomplished, an achievable better future, with the self-interest in necessity& justice more obvious to more citizens.

It is critical for the rule of law to be based on the-ineluctable-evidence rather than judicial opinion.

quora.com/What-embodies-your-idea-of-the-word-Liberty-which-is-so-engrained-in-our-USA-ideology-and-was-a-key-ingredient-to-setting-up-our-government-way-back-with-the-founding-fathers-do-you-think-some-of-its-value-has-been? by David Phillips

Mr. Phillips your question seems rhetorical. if so, I agree with you.

Moreover, the members of the entity We the People of the United States can . . . should establish the human-being’s individual power, individual energy, and individual authority (HIPEA) to pursue responsible-human-independence (RHI) rather than subject-to government-bestowed-liberty.

Briefly at about 98.3% of homo sapiens’ development to date (300,000 years), an ancient culture, 5,000 years ago suggested that female& male-human-being may independently provide order& prosperity to the living species and to this world, the earth. 2,000 years later, scribes codified the suggestion as the-God’s encouragement to RHI. That was in Genesis 1. But in Genesis 2, the scribes changed to a private-God communicating directly with the scribes’ ancestors. Since then, elites within races, civilizations, cultures, and societies have constructed doctrinal-Gods their tribes might accept as willing to usurp RHI so as to benefit their tribe. For example, in 1956, the USA changed its motto, applicable to the-factional-Gods, “E Pluribus Unum”, to the motto “In God We Trust” regressing RHI to competitive mysteries rather than to willing people.

Scholars often attribute to John Locke, d. 1704, the concept of humankind’s natural liberty: bestowed by the-God to the-God’s property:  Therefore, in Lockeism, no person, society, or government can deny the rights to life, liberty, and property. However, Jesus reportedly suggested appreciating temporal-Caesar for life and the-God for the mysterious soul.  Augustine, d. 430 AD, proposed temporal authority as necessary to encourage& facilitate spiritual opportunity. The Roman Catholic Church was then the major contender in this Western struggle between church and state, even though there were competing Christian orthodoxies in the world --- Greek, Russian, Ethiopian, and others. Also, there were the Jews and the Arabs and their factions, opposed by Rome. Humankind has always maintained chaos rather than developing order and prosperity, suggested 5,000 years ago.

Chaos increased when Martin Luther introduced Protestantism and two kingdoms: temporal and spiritual. John Locke, originally Calvinist but later his own Deist, helped constitutionalize a Protestant monarchy in the 1689 Bill of Rights. His advocate, Edmund Burke (d. 1797), however, accommodated the individual’s Catholic conscience. Burke opposed the French Revolution and the Thomas Paine (d. 1809) affirmation. Thomas Jefferson (d. 1826) supported separation of church and state.

The French Revolution licensed liberty to take fellow-citizens’ heads, and U.S.-Democrat cities in summer 2020 licensed liberty to kill or injure fellow citizens and trash property. Alinsky-Marxist organizers’ soldiers may consider the self-interest of RHI.

Use of RHI to read the 1776 declaration of war for independence from England and the proffered 1787 U.S. Constitution establishes intent to separate church and state, promising a republican from of government. However, the nine ratifying states agreed to add an Anglo-American Bill of Rights, and the First Congress regressed the intended RHI. Their tyranny has prevailed since then, and the Supreme Court affirms the arrogance against We the People of the United States.

We, the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” (including legal immigrants) can begin to correct the tyranny of liberty rather than independence by amending the First Amendment in order to encourage, facilitate, and practice the humble-integrity to the-ineluctable-truth that is required for RHI. “Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”, whereas “freedom of religion” pretends the subjectivity to reject outright the-ineluctable-evidence.

No civic-citizen should be denied the opportunity to develop humble-integrity, reserving sufficient humility toward the-God --- the entity that controls the consequences of human choices.

https://www.quora.com/The-cliche-The-family-that-prays-together-stays-togethersuggests-more-than-a-religious-message-What-is-an-essay-that-provides-a-sociological-interpretation-of-this-message? by Reii Hemsworth

Mr. Hemsworth, I appreciate your question and say so in my “appreciations” post at promotethepreamble.blogspot.com.

In my view, psychologically-successful family-prayer is a democratic-expression of mutual commitment& integrity rather than a doctrinal ritual. By democratic, I mean each member of the family, with the fortunate family, as many as 5 generations at the table, have the opportunity to express heartfelt concern for their decade in life and receive open-minded, open-hearted, concrete ideas that may resolve the concern and teach other family members. A culture with such family prayer-practice may survive their age’s divergent chaos. For example, with such practice R. E. Lee might have sold everything and moved to a non-slave state in 1856, when Bleeding Kansas foretold the white-on-white-Christian blood-letting.

I think homo sapiens, thought to be 300,000 years old, about 5,000 years ago acquired a political suggestion that willing members may independently provide order& prosperity to living species and to this world. The message was expressed 2,000 years later as encouragement (blessing), without either facilitation, coercion, or license-bestowal, by the-God; meaning whatever controls the consequences of human choices and events, rather than a doctrinal-God or hypothesis.

Only yesterday, I accepted Jean Rafenski Reynolds’ suggestion that all my choices/opinions are subjective, even though I may claim objectivity. To Jean’s point, I know it’s customary to express “The sun’ll come out tomorrow” (a little more representative than “The sun’ll come up tomorrow”). But I choose to-say “The earth’s rotation on its axis will un-hide the sun tomorrow.” Thereby, I express preference-to the- physics rather than-to its popular-perception. I choose to express the physical facts rather than the metaphysical convention.

Once a human-being overpowers perception and shares the objective facts, it is difficult to reverse the choice --- to affirm erroneous subjectivity-to-perception. Psychologically mature human-beings reserve sufficient humility to the-ineluctable-truth. “Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”; merriam-webster.com. Similarly, a human-being may develop a personal-God for hope& comfort yet maintain sufficient humility toward the-God.

Members of the-human-species may-choose to develop the-humble-integrity that-is necessary for responsible-human-independence (RHI). For example, the person who always heard& accepted “The sun’ll come out tomorrow”, when asked if that is so, can anticipate a physics-lesson and respond “I don’t know: you tell me”. Acceptance of the physics invites more awe, such as: the earth’s surface-rotation-speed is 1,000 miles per hour; thank physics for gravity! In all things, the prudent person responds “I don’t know” when they don’t know.

A typical person may live 80 years. Homo sapiens have some 10 trillion person-years of experiences& observations. Fortunately, only the facts& discoveries that are essential-to the living “ourselves and our Posterity” need be known& utilized, responsibly/not. Some people, neglecting self-interest, choose dependency rather than RHI.

Elites prey-on dependents. For example, it matters not that Google-ngrams show “the ineluctable truth” was expressed in 1906 and “ineluctable” was used in translation in 1571. It is essential that the continuum of living human-beings subjugate to nothing less than the-objective-truth if the-ineluctable-truth has not been discovered. The-objective-truth is the result of cumulative evidence when humankind has not yet invented the instruments of perception for proof. For example, in the fifth century B.C. the Greeks suggested that the earth is like a globe and proved it 2 centuries later. Yet it was 1520 AD before anyone sailed around the world (2 thousand years later). Last week, Jeff Bezos orbited the earth and returned with passengers. In this case, the-objective-truth became the-ineluctable-truth in about about 2,400 years, in my subjectivity. (Yet there remain a few who subjugate themselves to a flat-earth, maybe 1 in 15 in some countries.) I object to the liberal-arts professions hiding “the-ineluctable-truth” from the people. I search for a more powerful expression.

During the recent 5,000 years, discoveries accelerated on research to discover the laws of physics and its progeny --- mathematics, electromagnetic forces, the chemistries, biology, psychology, imagination, and fictions. Physics-discovery during the recent 100 years has been staggering.

However, psychology was& is mired in elite competition to persuade the-God to usurp RHI, in order to favor one polity; one tribe. Beginning with monotheism, 4,000 years ago, elites have led civilizations to war under doctrinal-Gods to which the people would subjugate. The consequence was chaos rather than order& prosperity to humankind. The use of “nature” to equivocate “the laws of physics” confuses people.

In the Middle East and the West, resistance to RHI evolved into competition between Jews and others, especially Arabs and Africans 3800 years ago. Arabs adopted competitive movements that by 800 AD produced Islam. “Gentiles” accepted competitive Christian Orthodoxies in 300 to 400 AD. Catholicism encountered reform 800 years ago then factional-Protestantism 500 years ago. Ethiopian Orthodoxy demands attention in the twenty-first century. After Enlightenment, capitalism, and Industrialization, during the recent 100 years, Western psychology passed through modernism, questioning all prior authority, to postmodernism, regressing to-control humankind’s future based on reason and technology rather than the laws of physics (my subjectivity).

After the flood, it was said that the age of human-being would be 120 years. Technology is making that a potential, physical reality. However, with world debt approaching $300 trillion and U.S. debt nearing $29 trillion, many people in the world don’t know how to cope. Their chaos is catastrophic. Only the elites might want 120 years of living.

The family that prays together with open-minds& open-hearts keeps the world in the hope& comfort that peace on earth is possible, as long as the civic-people appreciate each other’s RHI in deed& word. With widespread awareness of the-ineluctable-truth and the ancient literature (Genesis 1:26-28) suggestion to RHI, a better future is attainable.

Let’s spread this message for people to consider.  

https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-feel-is-the-most-significant-and-legitimate-reason-or-reason-s-for-not-spreading-democracy? by Alex White

There are many ways to express humankind’s dilemma. During the recent 300,000 years, humankind developed into only homo sapiens. Before now, there’ve been perhaps 10 trillion person-years of experience and observation, awareness hastened by language. Discovery since grammar was invented, about 5,000 years ago, was rapid. And in the last 400 years discovery accelerated in technology but lagged in psychology. Why? What power enabled scholars to help elites constrain widespread enlightenment?

The psychologically mature human being has the individual power, the individual energy, and the individual authority (HIPEA) to maintain the humble-integrity that is required for responsible-human-independence. However, it takes an encouraged and well-coached child a quarter-century to acquire the comprehension and intention to take charge of their person to perfect a complete, unique lifetime. It takes another quarter-century or 2 for them to acquire the experiences and observations on which to choose action or in-action for necessity and justice. No culture teaches these principles, and only by accepting civic-integrity as self-interest can a human-being aspire to succeed. But something changed.

Psychology accelerated during the last 100 years, and with Internet publication in 1993, progress became exponential. Everything that a person needs to perfect their unique person is suggested on the Internet and, moreover, in the bright faces and voices they connect-with each day.

In 1906, the then 350-year old word “ineluctable” was used to modify truth. “Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”. Also, in 1906, the expression was specific, with the article “the”. (Today, two hyphens invite the listener not to disassemble the expression: the-ineluctable-truth.)

Ten years later, women started winning the national right to vote, awarded in 1919. Then, with the Kinsey reports of 1948 and 1953, women broke male dominance. It became clear that the female body could provide around 400 viable ova during her fertile years. An authentic woman needed an authentic man who would care for her and their offspring for life. The male was to serve woman and their family for life. When most men balked at the proposition, women fulfilled their perceived purpose without a man and eventually, without religion. The consequence is privation of self-interest never prevalent before.

For the recent 30 years, humankind has been questioning all authority. In 2021, chaos reigns and hopefully is approaching the abyss so that responsible-human-independence (RHI) may emerge at last. There are in place three documents, which if used with recent discovery to pursue the-ineluctable-truth can make an achievable better future possible.

Viewed with my meager comprehension of what humankind knows in 2021, the 5,000 year-old political philosophy that was suggested by a culture in Sumer and competitively expressed 2,000 years later in Genesis 1:26-28 means: female and male human being may independently-provide order and prosperity to the living species in this world. This principle is strengthened in the uSA’s 1776 declaration of war for independence from England together with the U.S.’s 1787 Constitution for domestic discipline.

The members of the society We the People of the United States can establish pursuit of the-ineluctable-truth, as proposed in the above three documents, by amending the First Amendment so as to practice, encourage, and facilitate civic-integrity rather than religious-pride.

The journey to approach the-ineluctable-truth is too arduous to entrust to votes of a majority who may be enthralled with perceptions and take license to shed fellow-citizens’ blood. The U.S. must uphold its promise of a republic under the-ineluctable-truth, to be discovered by the continuum “ourselves and our Posterity”.

Mr. White, I appreciate your question and say so in my “appreciations” post at promotethepreamble.blogspot.com.

https://www.quora.com/unanswered/Can-a-society-permanently-enjoy-the-fruits-of-science-without-seeking-the-greatest-good-for-its-members? by David Klein

I don’t think so yet accept my subjectivity (thank you, Jean).

Let me examine the words you chose for your profound, perhaps rhetorical question. It takes quite a bit to build my argument, but I think the U.S. will reform when the society We the People of the United States amends the First Amendment so as to encourage, practice, and facilitate civic-integrity rather than religious pride. I encourage the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” (includes legal immigrants) to effect this reform before 2022 rolls in, so as to stop the $7 million growing debt to each member of the society of 2022 posterity, near 4,000 in number.

First, what’s “society”? It might indicate a faction of human-beings who happily both 1) benefit from research and 2) pay for the entrepreneurs& entertainers (E&E) to take the riches. If so, “members” could be the 90% who miss “the greatest good”. But “society” could express the portion of human-beings and their posterity who continually pursue necessity& justice; that is, the faction who practice responsible-human-independence (RHI) and therefore constrain dependency. It seems to me the former society is doomed to failure and the latter is approaching the abyss from which fellow-citizens who constrain dependency will reform so as to encourage& facilitate widespread participation in RHI.

Briefly, the customers must hold government (the seat of civil coercion& force) accountable for equitable rewards to suppliers (E&E) without undue wealth to the administrators who tie necessity to provision and convert fantasy into futile pursuit, for example, technology for physical gender-change with no idea where the customer’s psychology will end. I write to suggest that the individual can and therefore may constrain chaos in their way of living, and that majority membership in the society of constraint lessens the risk of divergent chaos.

Second, what’s “science”? Merriam-webster. com opines in 2021 usage “science” means “knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation.” I think this usage equivocates “research” and accepts the seventeenth-century, erroneous claims that “reason” is more reliable than research (because the results must be revised as researchers invent new instruments of perception). I’m less un-comfortable with Britannica .com’s “any system of knowledge that is concerned with the physical world and its phenomena and that entails unbiased observations and systematic experimentation. In general, a science involves a pursuit of knowledge covering general truths or the operations of fundamental laws.” In 2021, we’re pretty certain that chemistries --- biology and electrolysis manage psychology. Yet “general truths” and “fundamental laws” are obfuscations to “the-ineluctable-truth” and “the laws of physics and its progeny”, respectively. “Ineluctable” has been known for 450 years, and the reader is justified in asking: Why would Britannica choose “general” when “ineluctable” is known? In general, the liberal-arts professions have systematically hidden “ineluctable” form the public’s attention, delaying discovery of the phrase “the-ineluctable-truth”.  It means the-truth not to be avoided, changed, or resisted.

 

Cambridge. org/us/dictionary/english/science offers “(knowledge from) the careful study of the structure and behavior of the physical worldespecially by watchingmeasuring, and doing experiments, and the development of theories to describe the results of these activities”.

 

I think the reason for this confusion is that “social sciences”, partnering with social-journalism, attempt to establish authority based on human subjectivity: opinion rather than physics& its progeny& source. Popular opinion would overthrow the-ineluctable-truth, if it could. See sciencecouncil.org/about-science/our-definition-of-science/.

Third, consider “research”. Cambridge suggests “a detailed study of a subject, especially in order to discover (new) information or reach a (new) understanding”. Britannica presents “Basic research is defined as the work of scientists and others who pursue their investigations without conscious goals, other than the desire to unravel the secrets of nature”. MW offers “careful study that is done to find and report new knowledge about something”. “Secrets of nature” is nostalgic enough to bemuse many fellow-citizens from their opportunity to discover the laws of physics, its progeny, and its source.

In 2021, human-beings benefit from all the discovery that has occurred before now. Jeff Bezos just returned from orbiting the earth in the former other-worldly “heavens”. Daily, new discovery provides more evidence that psychology is controlled by the laws of physics. Proof that each human-being can develop the humble-integrity that is required to constrain chaos in their way of living is exponentially observed. As more fellow-citizens accept the self-interest of constraining chaos, advances toward an achievable better future will accelerate.

The age of responsible-human-independence is dawning.

https://www.quora.com/Is-patriotism-a-myth? by Pandora Box

Merriam-webster. com tells us “patriotism” means “love for or devotion to one's country”.

I think “individual appreciation for and civic-aid to one’s country” is more realistic, and I have done that. But I did not serve in the military, so I yield the above definition to veterans, if they prefer it.

The members of We the People of the United States are patriotic, “in order to” practice, encourage, and facilitate responsible-human-independence (RHI) “to ourselves and our Posterity”. Posterity includes descendants and legal immigrants. Since “ourselves” is increasing federal debt, Posterity faces an increasing $7 million federal debt each.

Fiscal reform could restore widespread patriotism.

https://www.quora.com/How-can-age-diversity-be-addressed? by ValPac

If fellow-citizens at age 10 would read Kahlil Gibran’s “On Children” to their parents, then the parents read it to the children when the children are 15, then again when the children are 50, the grandchildren might benefit from the same sequence; https://poets.org/poem/children-1. 

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-many-in-the-US-think-that-without-property-rights-no-other-rights-are-possible-or-generally-that-property-is-an-essential-right-bound-up-with-self-and-self-ownership? by Peter Stillman

I can’t speak for “many U.S. citizens” and don’t know the-ineluctable-truth. (Check “ineluctable”, if you don’t know it.)

I think the citizens you cite value personal-privacy, in-order-to practice responsible-human-independence (RHI) and perceive it’s only possible in home-ownership on as much land as personal earnings will support.

It’s neither easy nor cheap and requires commitment to family for life; not a bad idea.

Law professors

https://lawliberty.org/judge-pryors-friendly-fire and Law & Liberty | Facebook

Professor Hadley Arkes wrote “Judge Pryor shares with us the understanding that the Constitution did not spring from a brute imposition of force—it was drawn from some anchoring “truths” about the rightful governance of human beings. As the understanding ran at the Founding, no man was by nature the ruler of other men in the way that God was by nature the ruler of men, and men were by nature the rulers of dogs and horses. The “self-evident” truth of the Declaration then was that the only rightful government for human beings drew its just powers from ‘the consent of the governed.’”

This John Locke logic is perverted: it asserts that human beings understand natural law and therefore can consent to the will of God. Locke wrote in 1690 “Thus the law of nature stands as an eternal rule to all men, legislators as well as others. The rules that they make for other men's actions, must, as well as their own and other men's actions, be conformable to the law of nature, i.e. to the will of God.”

Now that this Lockean arrogance is publically known, perhaps law professors will retreat from “natural law” equivocated as “the will of God” altogether, and begin to pursue the-ineluctable-truth to rule the law. “Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”. The word was translated from an older language in 1571 and used to express “the ineluctable truth” in 1906. Adding two hyphens strengthen that phrase.

The accuracy& precision of “the-ineluctable-truth” is powerful, yet I seek an even better expression. Maybe we’ll discover the source of the laws of physics and its progeny.

[We’ll see if this comment survives censorship. I doubt it.] It’s still there on 10/30/2021.

Phil Beaver does not “know.” He trusts in and is committed to the-objective-truth which can only be discovered. Conventional wisdom has truth founded on reason, but it obviously does not work.

Phil is agent for A Civic People of the United States, a Louisiana, education non-profit corporation. See online at promotethepreamble.blogspot.com, and consider essays from the latest and going back as far as you like.

Saturday, October 23, 2021

Behaving according to the-God, whatever that entity may be

 Phil Beaver seeks to collaborate on the-objective-truth, which can only be discovered. The comment box below invites readers to write.

"Civic" refers to citizens who collaborate for individual happiness with civic integrity more than for the city, state, nation, or society.

Consider writing a personal paraphrase of the preamble, which offers fellow citizens mutual appreciation:  For discussion, I convert the preamble’s predicate phrases to nouns and paraphrase it for my interpretation of its proposal as follows We the People of the United States proffer & practice 5 public disciplines —- integrity, justice, peace, strength, and prosperity, “in order to” encourage & facilitate responsible-human-independence “to ourselves and our Posterity”. I want to improve my interpretation by listening to other citizens and their interpretations yet would preserve the original, 1787, text, unless it is amended by the people.

It seems the Supreme Court occasionally refers to it, and no one has challenged whether or not the preamble is a legal statement. The fact that it changed this independent country from a confederation of states to a union of states deliberately managed by disciplined fellow citizens convinces me the preamble is legal. Equity in opportunity and outcome is shared by the people who collaborate for human justice.

Every citizen has equal opportunity to either trust-in and collaborate-on the goals stated in the preamble or be dissident to the agreement. I think 2/3 of citizens try somewhat to use the preamble but many do not articulate commitment to the goals. However, it seems less than 2/3 understand that “posterity” implies grandchildren. “Freedom of religion,” which fellow citizens have no means to discipline, oppresses freedom to develop integrity.

Selected theme from this week

Behaving according to the-God, whatever that entity may be

      I was an East Tennessee Southern Baptist, 11 and 13 years old, respectively, when the U.S. added “. . . under God” to the pledge of allegiance and adopted the motto “In God We Trust” instead of the 1782 motto “E Pluribus Unum”. I heard about affluent& frightened fellow-citizens building and stocking nuclear-fallout-shelters for their families.

      As husband and later father with 3 children, I questioned the hypocrisy of “God Bless America”, hyped by our government. Reagan’s “city on a hill” came after I’d spent 15 months with family in Greece, learning humility about provincial opinions. I intended to develop my open-mind, appreciating my wife’s differing Christian religion, developed together for our children. That was half a century ago.

      My appreciation for my wife’s religion and our children’s religions has never been stronger, and my trust-in and commitment to the-ineluctable-truth has never been as articulate. “Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”. I am sorry Mom and Dad did not experience that word. I have yet to meet a person who claims to know “ineluctable”. After discovering it, I feel that I am open-hearted as well as open-minded.

      The impact of that sojourn in Greece as well as more recent foreign visits, including Jamaica, Mexico, Germany, France, Belgium, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and England, opened recent imagination to the-God: whatever controls the consequences of individual human-being’s choices and collective choices. It could be physics and its progeny. My travel days are over. Never again will I have the arrogance to risk sufficient humility toward the-God, because I do not know the-ineluctable-truth. And not knowing neither frustrates me nor stymies my listening habit.

      I hope many readers comprehend my point: for all I know, the Jesus who reportedly said “before Abraham was born I AM” is the metaphysical author of Genesis 1:26-28’s 5 thousand-year-old message: homo sapiens can independently constrain chaos on earth.

News

How the Ghost of Jimmy Carter’s Presidency Haunts Everything Biden Says About Supply Shortages (msn.com)

Kevin Mattson illustrates postmodern-journalism’s alien-determination to persuade U.S. citizens to fail 1787 U.S. intentions.

“[T]he sociologist Robert Bellah . . . becoming known as a “communitarian” argued that Carter could . . . present the vision . . . “people participate in each other’s lives because they are mutually committed to values that transcend self-interest.”

According to the U.S. 1787 proposal, people civically encourage& facilitate responsible-human-independence (RHI) when they constrain chaos in their personal-privacy.

“Carter . . . added . . . “We’ve learned that piling up material goods cannot fill the emptiness of lives which have no confidence or purpose.”

The proffered 1787 U.S. domestic-discipline is stated in the preamble’s purpose-clause: in self-interest, the-civic-people in their states practice integrity, justice, peace, strength, and prosperity and encourage& facilitate responsible-human-independence (RHI) “to ourselves and our Posterity”.

Therein, “ourselves” includes children, and “Posterity” includes legal immigrants. The disciplines exclude religion/none, reserved in personal-privacy. Discipline-standards are to be discovered in the continuum “ourselves and our Posterity”. The goal is independence, a human duty& opportunity, instead of liberty, too often licensed by the winner in war or in mob-frenzy.

Mattson finishes his article “Slow down and think about what really matters in our lives . . . was the best part of Carter’s message, and many Americans, I think, would still respond to it.  But the intervening decades of American politics have made it very hard to imagine any president going there, ever again.”

It is not difficult to imagine the next president responding to the entity We the People of the United States revising the First Amendment so as to promote the civic humble-integrity required for RHI rather than civil religious pride. We, the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” can make it happen. Contact your U.S. and local representatives.

To Barry Duncan:

To kindly share civic-concern, this reader is constrained to ask why the famous Plains, Ga Baptist Sunday-school teacher is the worst ever-president, excepting Biden. I'm asking my Baptist Church to consider Genesis 1:28's message, in 2021 awareness: female& male-human-being can, for necessity& justice, provide order& prosperity to the living species and to this world. I make the case that this message can be deduced from the metaphysical Jesus's reported sayings, like "Before Abraham was born I AM". So far, "my" pastor (once saved, always saved) won't return my phone call. In my fourth quarter century I can say that only "freethinkers" more arrogantly claim a higher pedestal of "tolerance". 

Quora

https://www.quora.com/With-the-way-things-are-going-on-in-the-world-is-honesty-still-the-best-policy? by EKPEM CHIMEZIE GODKNOWS

Honesty is the policy that created the divergent chaos we are observing. The human-being is served by humble-integrity, by which they can gage personal-integrity. In humble-integrity, the person retains their youths ready-acceptance “I don’t know” when that is so, followed by consideration as to the need to know, then the required research-work if there is a need.

By acting on necessity& justice, a person can constrain chaos in their way of living.

https://www.quora.com/Freedom-of-speech-Do-you-believe-all-opinions-should-be-respected-even-the-bad-ones? by Basti Waynex

I do, because opinions represent the person at their point and time in their development of psychological maturity: responsible-independence from internal and external constraints. For example, earning their living and observing the law or not.

If liars can’t lie, we cannot learn they are liars.

If people who fear their civic-speech can’t be silent, they cannot suggest their anxiety, notice your silent empathy, and consider reform.

If the other party interrupts your explanation with “I know what you mean”, you know they don’t think they have time to learn what you mean.

If the other party talks over you, you know they are stonewalling.

If the other party says “Let’s agree to disagree” you know they can’t counter your opinion.

If the other party expresses tolerance, you know to switch to small talk.

If the other party says “You don’t understand” you know they don’t want to hear your information.

If the other party asks if you are an atheist, you know they never considered the-God --- the entity that controls the consequences of human decisions.

If the other party says sooner or later you’ll submit to their God, you accepted long ago that you will die and face afterdeath, that infinite time after body, mind, and person stop functioning.

If someone claims the U.S. sovereign is We the People of the United States, you know they don’t understand the nation’s domestic disciplines to the continuum “ourselves and our Posterity” now in its twelfth generation, growing $7 million debt to each newborn-citizen and legal-immigrant.

If a friend can’t express ignorance, you cannot help them observe& correct the error. If they can’t express your ignorance, there’s no way they can assist you.

If your priest won’t return you call, you know they fear the-priesthood-the-God-grants-each-believer and to encourage& facilitate open-mindedness and open-heartedness when possible.

If you senator won’t respond to your call for civic-humility instead of religion-pride “to ourselves and our Posterity”, you know they don’t represent you. You plan to find a candidate who understands 1776& 1787 U.S. intentions.

If someone rebukes you, you know it does not frustrate you and you need not respond, unless in so doing you accommodate harm/injury to someone.

If a family member takes you for granted without potential harm/injury, it changes nothing.

If a neighbor doesn’t appreciate civic-responsibility from a fellow-citizen with a differing pursuit of responsible-spiritual-happiness, you know they are alien to the U.S. intentions.

If a scholar does not use the word “ineluctable”, you know they write to exploit the truth.

If a politician does not present self as first a citizen with a published, personal interpretation of the 1787 U.S. intentions, you know they are alien “to ourselves and our Posterity” and won’t vote for them. Individual citizens with such self-interest-negligence ought not be granted a license to vote.

The list goes on. I think I have asserted that I appreciate every negative/positive message I receive as something to ponder for self-interest.

https://www.quora.com/Considering-the-sources-presented-what-is-the-best-way-to-establish-a-civic- https://www.quora.com/Which-US-political-figures-in-the-last-10-years-most-contributed-to-recent-conservative-liberal-polarization? by William Stark

Please accept that I have no clue and only express an opinion, based on a few pseudo-facts my efforts on the Internet continually open without negation.

Hands down, President Barack Obama seems the most alien fellow-citizen I have encountered. During his first election, I was alarmed by his acclaim in Europe, a people who resent America because of guilty-influences during colonization.

Obama was such a profound candidate to win the first “black” presidency the Bill-Clintons and their oligarchy could not pass it up. Obama’s August 25, 2008 nomination speech,  https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94087570 , stirred my imagination and hope for resolution of the consequences of European imposition of slavery on this continent, the founders’ intentions to end it, the framers’ intractability to reverse it, the Civil War’s failure to resolve it, and the 1964-65 exacerbation of its Christian foundation: check cashing.

Since adolescence, I have learned the promise of ruin in the First Congress’s arrogance to create a Protestant-legislators-partnership to mimic the egocentric “divinity” of the Church of England partnering with Parliament. I cringe each time a Chief Justice presents to the president-elect the interrogatory “. . . so help you God?” I’m silent during the pledge to the flag, because I hold it, with the added prayer, “. . . under God” to be coercive; furthermore, I will never again have the arrogance to turn my back on the-God, whatever that entity may be, so as to trust my beliefs. I was a child when the Knights of Columbus led the charge to negate the 1782 motto “E Pluribus Unum” for “In God We Trust”, another arrogance toward the-God. The 1782 motto applies to the competitive-Gods this nation’s-factions worship and the world promote. Obama made me aware of the second verse of a great blues song “Amazing Grace”: “Twas grace the taught my heart to fear”. Only cowards are moved by fear, and it is difficult to maintain metaphysical fear in a human-being’s heart.

I accept that on these principles, the U.S. National Archives invites what may be a revisionist history, labeled “Tewahedo” meaning unity; The Ethiopian Orthodox Tawahido Church - YouTube. The Google ngram from 1500 shows a blip in 1846-1852 then nothing until 1968 yet Ethiopian Christianity has been around since the beginning, with its Bible canon in 330 AD. I have no objections if believers hope& assert-that their God has black/brown skin.

I understand that both Obama and Hillary Clinton were Alinsky fans; https://washingtonmonthly.com/2016/03/15/hillary-clinton-barack-obama-and-saul-alinsky/. And Saul Alinsky was groomed by Al-Capone-administrators; https://www.nationalreview.com/2012/03/still-alinsky-playbook-john-fund/. Chicago currently ranks 10th in murder frequency in the U.S.

A continuing theme of U.S. failure is erroneous Christian opinion. We, the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” can stop the pain and loss by amending the First Amendment so as to encourage& facilitate civic humble-integrity rather than civil religious-pride, the proceed to similar reforms.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-wrong-with-Social-Justice? by Chris Golden

Each person can accept that they are a human-being and choose to develop the individual power, the individual energy, and the individual authority (HIPEA) to practice the-humble-integrity that seems required for responsible-human-independence (RHI).

They can choose to rely on the-ineluctable-evidence to guide humble-integrity. “Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”. Unfortunately, no society encourages& facilitates these principles, so most people seek a higher power to usurp their RHI.

Some people look to government (physics), some seek the-God (metaphysics), and some seek-to partner the-God& government for their higher-power. However, it does not suffice, because government does not accept the-ineluctable-evidence if they encounter it, and the-God cannot negate RHI to discover the-ineluctable-truth. Societies that hope to use reason to avoid, change, or resist the-ineluctable-truth mislead their members.

Human action is a necessity. For example, if an elephant is loose, humans must constrain it. If a Category 5 evacuation is ordered, humans must evacuate. If direct attack is underway, humans must control their emotions so as to defend themselves. However, the action must be taken in justice. For example, an armed homeowner investigating an open window halfway to dawn must not shoot at a shadow under the table before his adventuresome son can speak “Dad, it’s me.”

Necessity& justice informs every human action. If an action is not necessary, a human-being can choose not to take it. For example, if a trip seems too risky, they can delay it. If injury prevents planned work, they can delay it. If the society, intentionally or erroneously, intends or accommodates injustice, the individual need not participate and may report the plan to first responders.

Accommodating social justice is ruinous if the society is less than female&male-human-being.

https://ethicsandmorals.quora.com/?__ni__=0&__nsrc__=4&__snid3__=27879404014&__tiids__=40299975? Julianna Anand sharing a post and https://www.quora.com/Do-good-and-bad-actually-exist-or-are-they-made-up?  by Jason Stone, Aug 25

About 5,000 years with grammar, the recent of homo sapiens’ 300,000 years, have passed, and people are regularly if not routinely traveling-into and others orbiting-in the former “heavens”, a metaphysical other-world dominated by the-God.

However, grammar has not helped humankind approach psychological maturity. Why? What if most female& male-human-beings had accepted and are now practicing the 5,000 year-old political philosophy, expressed in my meager 2021 comprehension:  the human species has independence --- the individual power, energy, and authority (HIPEA) --- to provide order& prosperity to this world: to practice responsible-human-independence (RHI).

The ancient suggestion (perhaps from the north; https://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Elohim) was recorded 2 thousand years later by a scribe in south-vernacular, as a blessing from the-God, like a father blessing a marriage, with sincere hope for success. See Genesis 1:26-28. In Genesis 2 and mostly thereafter, the-God is more physical, walking and talking with matriarchs& patriarchs; Eve& Adam, Sarah& Abraham, Moses, and others. After Genesis 1, the Bible canon from the continents depict female& male striving for a doctrinal-God to usurp the RHI suggested in Genesis 1. Therefore, few individuals intend the humble-integrity that is required to develop RHI.

Most descendants just want to live. Now! They expect either Mom& Dad’s way of living (or personal-opposition) to serve them well. However, too often, spouses choose each other on erroneously-perceived like-mindedness, failing to accept evident opposite-heartedness. For example, persons tend to want to create a family within their race, within their religious institution, and within political views. Or not. They fail to accept the RHI to constrain chaos in their spousal-bond.

While homo sapiens benefits from nearly 10 trillion person-years of experience and observations, the human-being takes a quarter-century to complete the wisdom-building parts of the brain, another 1 to 2 quarter-centuries to accumulate their experiences& observations, and hopefully another quarter-century to ruminate or share their experiences& observations with family, friends, and perhaps fellow-citizens. There’s no lifetime to waste if a person intends to perfect their unique journey to perfection. Too often, individuals make decisions that prevent pursuit of the perfection they perceive in each decade then ultimately seek. They fail to choose in self-interest.

Why is this so? I think it’s because liberal-arts scholars shield truth so that the elites who pay them handsomely can manipulate the people who do not take charge of personal self-interest. The scholars write for their choir in public-manipulative-language, such as “the common good”, “self-governance” and “[God’s] property”.

The most egregious scholarly offense is hiding the word “ineluctable”; I don’t know how old in foreign languages, but translated into English by 1571, 450 years ago. “Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”. Modify “truth” with “ineluctable”, and the scholar narrows the field. Add the article “the” and the scholar perceives exactitude. Add 2 hyphens, and the reader is constrained to improve the writer’s accurate& precise expression: the-ineluctable-truth.

Why don’t most chemical engineers know this? Personal self-interest is served by the-ineluctable-evidence, which, upon discovery, empowers invention of the instruments for perceiving the-ineluctable-truth. I seek an expression more precise& accurate than the-ineluctable-truth, most of which is unknown.

If I’ve made sense so far, perhaps I can offer relief to Jason Stone’s angst. In my fourth quarter-century, I accept that my life is ruined by its events. Eight months ago, I took the first of my 2 COVID-vaccine shots and am not certain I am glad. Did they exacerbate the melanoma now on my left arm, diagnosed benign 2 years ago? That’s only a sample of possible damages my life has entailed. However, I continue to do all I can to support my family while pursuing the humble-integrity I need for RHI.

I will not voluntarily let circumstances ruin Phil Beaver or his family and other fellow-citizens. I do not think I am alone --- in fact, I am a late-comer to the-ineluctable-truth. I hope this message offers relief from widespread negligence of a 5,000 year-old suggestion: the female& male human-being can choose-to constrain chaos in the way of living.

https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-key-examples-of-classical-conservative-political-thinkers-and-how-are-they-relevant-to-todays-political-climate? by William Stark

This is far too big a question for a chemical engineer to attempt to address, especially the first part, which is essential to the second.

Lists can be learned by categories – variants, concepts, thinkers, etc., using drop downs in the right panel at https://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism . Among the “thinkers”, I’ve argued with only Hume, Burke, and Dostoevsky. A recent “Western” overview is at https://www.britannica. com/topic/conservatism/Conservatism-since-the-turn-of-the-20th-century. Access to 95 documents is at https://plato.stanford. edu/search/searcher.py?query=conservatism . The documents count increases to 240 if you search “Asian conservatism”. Erroneously, everything starts with Edmund Burke.

A longer list is available to me at https:// en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Classical_liberalism, where “thinkers” I have considered include Bentham, Burke, Emerson, Kant, Locke, Mill, Nozick, Pain, Rawls, Smith, and Weber. Emerson

It seems to me every thinker I studied was/is enthralled with the search for a doctrinal-God that can usurp the female& male-human-being-species’ responsibility to independently provide order& prosperity to the living species and to this world. And to me, conservation of the inferred responsible-human-independence (RHI) is our purpose and ought to be our intention& practice. Further, the incentive& motivation for RHI comes from necessity& justice rather than from some ideology, such as worshipping and praising for privilege, behaving for a higher reincarnation, afterdeath in heaven, or other metaphysical goal.

Another characteristic of these thinkers is that they seem to write to compete with each other’s scholarly-truths, and consequently obfuscate the truth from a more precise& accurate term. The word “ineluctable” was first used in translation in 1571 or earlier. It means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”. Google ngrams show that “the ineluctable truth” and “ineluctable truth” (less) were used in 1906 and thereafter, but at small frequencies. I use “the-ineluctable-truth”, the hyphens to beg the reader not to disassemble the specificity of the phrase.

Just as “God” is defined by the believer, hopefully with a reserve of humility rather than arrogance toward the-God, “conservative” is defined by the thinker and may elude the reader/listener. I read, write, and listen to persuade fellow-citizens to conserve the humble-integrity required to practice RHI. No human-being should be denied the opportunity to develop humble-integrity.

When 2/3 of fellow-citizens retain their youthful “I don’t know” when that is so and debate the-ineluctable-truth rather than a person or institution’s opinion, female& male-human-being fidelity will be powerful enough, energetic enough, and authoritative enough to constrain the people, elite or not, who pursue egocentrically-liberal-control rather than RHI.

Mr. Stark, I appreciate what I learned from your question, and express it today at my post “appreciations” on promotethepreamble.blogspot.com. I want to listen to comments.

https://www.quora.com/Can-you-define-modernism-and-postmodernism-in-a-short-and-simple-answer/answer/Phil-Beaver-1?__nsrc__=4&__snid3__=27858657109&comment_id=227739548&comment_type=2 by Jean Rafenski Reynolds

I appreciate your good-hearted views and hope to share suggestions that seem thoughtful if not helpful to you and other readers. I think it’s a question of unreliable metaphysics, ever corrected by physics.

First, “modernists believe that churches (for example) are divinely ordained institutions that always put God first.”

In personal struggles with “belief” I concluded that “God” distracts minds and hearts from “the-God”, which humility would never slight. In other words, no matter how fervently a church presents its doctrine, prudent-members reserve sufficient-humility to the-God. And people who rely on physics admit: the-ineluctable-truth about the-God does not submit to my opinion. “Ineluctable”, around in English since 1571, means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”.

To your point about sex being a central issue in some churches, the above prudence empowers the believer to pursue happiness (confidence in the-God) despite institutional hypocrisy. And if the institution does not sufficiently reform, the member can stop participating, in order to find another institution or be satisfied with their personal-view of the-God --- yet ready to discuss the-God with family, friends, and fellow-citizens who want to share ideas.

“We no longer define a family as one man, one woman, and their children.”

Does the “we” identify you as a postmodernist? I doubt most people, or “we” are ready to turn their backs on physics and its progeny in-order-to depend on psychology-entrepreneurs.

Psychology-entrepreneurs, people who prey on the unknown, are not new at all. For example, the competitive-priests to their diverse tribes before Genesis 1:26–28 and afterwards persuaded listeners that they had the keys to the-God of creation, and their tribe is the-God’s chosen race. The religious-competition bemused people from the ancient message that female& male-human-being can independently-provide order& prosperity to the living species and to the earth.

Some led men to believe women were subservient, when, in fact women’s bodies provide the eggs on which humanity survive. Their will to care spills-over to the community. The authentic man wants to support his authentic woman for life --- intends to support their children’s children and beyond. The human-being is too powerful --- has too much energy, power, and authority --- to yield to peddlers of chaos.

The consequence of divergent chaos is a world wherein most priests can no longer persuade many people to fear by grace in-order-to accept salvation by grace. Therefore, new priests are seducing adolescents to gender-change, with technology-support for life. However, the viable ovum is due the unique dignity& appreciation due each a single-cell embryo and a gestated& delivered-infant. Also, the notion of same-sex partners rearing children whose mature adult person won’t be satisfied without heterosexual-monogamy for life have not the technology to deliver the adult happiness.

These thoughts are atypical, but that does not mean they are uncaring or insincere —- only meant to “poke a finger in the ant hill”.

To Reynolds again:

Ms Reynolds, thank you for recognizing me as Phil. May I address you “Jean”?

I did not mean to talk past you and sincerely want to comprehend, in order to learn, for example, your “we”. In this post, it seems you are church-conservative; “We don’t need to get involved in this.”

I think you are involved, if you pay taxes for infrastructure, which includes both law-enforcement and research to amend erroneous law so as to approach statutory justice. The challenge is to cast your votes, local, state, and national, in responsible self-interest rather than for a church that does not reform.

I was responding to “Churches have a long tradition of protecting sex abusers, for example, instead of putting a priority on protecting children” in your paragraph expressing postmodernists’ views.

Obviously, “church-conservative” is my impression of your writing, and I would like to use your descriptive. FYI, I consider myself responsible-human-independence-conservative, or RHI-conservative.

I carry that commitment to my Baptist church, which, in my fourth-quarter century, does not accept my views. Thus, they take a narrow view of “the priesthood of the believer”; see 1 Peter 2:4–5. Imagine the-God choosing to influence Phil Beaver to think Jesus is the light to Genesis 1:26–28: independent of other living species, female& male-human-being can provide order& prosperity to the earth. Each person can constrain chaos in their way of living. But not all persons choose to be human-beings. Some employ HIPEA for dependency.

 

https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-can-you-form-a-fair-opinion-without-all-the-facts? by Graham C Lindsay

It’s quite a challenge, but one that every human-being can choose to face. The complexity can be perceived by reading perhaps 6 to 10 of Ralph Waldo Emerson’s essays, with deep personal-comprehension. His awareness in 1850 is unfathomable. I don’t always agree with him.

Consider a physical example. To the ancient landlubber the earth was flat. But the island-dwelling seafarer saw, from the sun on the horizon, slight curvature and wondered: why? The Greeks suggested it is a sphere in the fifth century B.C. Yet Bible-believing seafarers were reluctant to explore the world until about 1100 A.D. Views from space remove all doubt. Yet flat-earthers are still around.

It seems Emerson believed in 1) the-God as a controller of the consequences of human choices and 2) afterdeath-continuation as a “soul”. However, he did not believe Jesus was the-God, rather that he was a unique man who saw that each person may perfect their unique person before dying. I do not think it is fair for a person to choose a God, because in so doing, there’s the risk of not reserving humility that is acceptable to the-God. Thus, I give Jesus the benefit of the doubt and perceive the possibility that the metaphysical Jesus is the author of Genesis 1:26-28, charging humankind to constrain chaos in this world.

The word “ineluctable” was recorded in 1571, so it was available to Emerson. However, it was not coupled with “truth” until 1906, so Emerson may have missed the opportunity. “Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”, merriam-webster.com. If a person retains their posture from youth “I don’t know” when that is so, they can decide, based on necessity& justice whether they need to know or not. If they need to know, they can do the research to discover the-objective-truth based on the-ineluctable-evidence. If the evidence is nil, or negative, they can put the concern aside. However, if  they discover affirmation of the concern, they should learn how to responsibly apply the-objective-truth. Having done this work with integrity rather than honesty, they are then in a position to act on the-objective-truth. If they doubt the-objective-truth and can wait for invention of instruments of perception that will more closely approach the-ineluctable-truth, they’d be prudent not to act.

The most severe test of fairness I know of is the decision to condemn a civic-citizen based on their religious belief or none. For example, the Apostle John, in John 15:18-23, uses the word “hate” 5 times, condemning non-believers. Consequently John cannot influence me. However, the metaphorical Jesus claimed “before Abraham was I AM”. Thus, he may be the author of the suggestion in Genesis 1:26-28 that female& male-human-being can independently provide order& prosperity to the living species and to this world. I think it is fair to practice this suggestion.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-maxim-Do-whatever-produces-the-greatest-good-for-the-greatest-number-of-people? by Cristel Mae Anillo

I don’t know.
But it made me think: constraining chaos in your personal way of living ought to suffice.

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-so-important-to-protect-the-liberty-of-those-whom-you-may-find-repugnant? by Ngoc Truong

Frankly, I think this concept is not yours.

First, a civic-person appreciates other civic-persons and grants the benefit of first contact for mutual affirmation: almost no one invites immediate rejection. I encountered someone in the street who may have been so drugged up he looked like Satan, and I felt pity for him so did not give him money.

Second, we have been informed by the 1789 French reign of terror and by Democrat mayors in U.S. violent cities in the summer of 2020 that “liberty” is too often taken as license to relieve fellow citizens of the heads and blood. I think “liberty” is granted by the winner in war or mob violence. Civic-citizens work for responsible-independence.

Each citizen could . . . should encourage& facilitate civic responsible-human-independence “to ourselves and our Posterity”, leaving religion/none to personal-privacy.

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-US-switching-from-a-free-society-every-citizen-can-enjoy-freedom-to-a-totalitarian-society-only-selected-classes-can-enjoy-freedom-Why-or-why-not? by John D.

Necessity& justice demand that the human-being develop the-humble-integrity that is required to practice responsible-human-independence (RHI). The 1776 declaration on independence from England together with the 1787 Constitution proffered a culture of domestic self-discipline to integrity, justice, peace, strength, and prosperity “in order to” encourage& facilitate RHI “to ourselves and our Posterity”, leaving the pursuit of religion/none to personal-privacy.

Freedom is a bestowal from the winner of either foreign war or domestic violence, whereas responsible-independence is human character.

The First Congress bemused the people with “freedom of religion”, because they could not relinquish power to the faction dubbed We the People of the United States, who intend& practice the RHI to constrain government --- local, state, and federal --- as well as dependent fellow citizens. Dependencies includes indolence, infidelity, abuse, crime, tyranny, evil, and metaphysics.

So far, “ourselves and our Posterity” has accommodated the Congressional tyranny of the religion clauses in the First Amendment. We, the 2021 citizens who want responsible-independence more than bestowed freedom can amend the First Amendment so as to encourage& facilitate RHI rather than civil dependency such as “freedom of religion”.

Every human being is due the opportunity to reserve sufficient humility toward the-God ---  whatever controls the consequences of personal choice --- rather than submit to a Congressional imposition such as Judeo-Christianity or gender selection.

I think the faction We the People of the United States will so amend the First Amendment then advance to similar reforms.

https://www.quora.com/Can-you-have-freedom-without-belonging? by Nicole Washington

No, you can’t “have freedom without belonging”. And the two key words, “freedom” and “belonging” involve personal choice. Let me explain the choices “responsible-human-independence” and “female& male-human-being”.

First, “freedom” is an opportunity bestowed by the winner of war or domestic violence and their appointed magistrate. But the human-being has the potential to develop the humble-integrity they need to practice responsible-human-independence “RHI”, regardless of the magistrate’s vision for them.

“Humble-integrity” means retaining for life the child-like “I don’t know” when that is so and pursuing the-ineluctable-evidence if necessity& justice require knowledge. When the-ineluctable-evidence is negative, you report “I don’t know” but may add an opinion earned by your study. If you are under attack, you express your opinion with dominant-defense. If someone rebukes your opinion without attacking your person, you wait for a more open-minded, more open-hearted future, regardless of which opinion needs amendment to necessity& justice.

Choosing to belong is first the opportunity to be a human-being. The female& male-human-being has the potential individual power, individual energy, and individual authority (HIPEA) to accept the humble-integrity to constrain chaos in their way of living: to practice RHI.

But not every person chooses to belong to female& male-human-being, or to be civic-citizens, where “civic” means practicing RHI. Some individuals pursue an arrogant-dependency: indolence, infidelity, abuse, crime, tyranny, evil, and worse.

These principles may be deduced, using humankind’s discoveries during the recent 5 thousand years, from a 5 thousand year old political philosophy. The philosophy was expressed 2 thousand years later, by a scribe who could not possibly represent the ancient culture. Genesis 1:26-28 suggests, in my view:  Female& male-human-being is the only species that can independently provide order and prosperity to the other species and to this world. Persons who choose to accept RHI belong, and the others choose an opposing existence: animal, plant, mineral, or soul-mystery.

Together, the uSA founders, in their 1776 declaration of independence from England and the 55 framers, in the 1787 draft Constitution for the U.S. and moreover the 39 signers who agreed with the intentions expressed in the 5-day old revision of the preamble, intentionally or not, claimed RHI consistent with the ancient suggestion in Genesis 1. It is up to each citizen in the continuum “ourselves and our Posterity”, now in its twelfth generation, to interpret the preamble and belong to their comprehension of the entity We the People of the United States or choose a dependency.

My comprehension, today is: We the People of the United States choose 5 domestic disciplines --- integrity, justice, peace, strength, and prosperity “in order to” encourage& facilitate responsible-human-independence “to ourselves and our Posterity”. Religion is left to personal-privacy, ultimate standards for the 6 practices are to be discovered by posterity’s posterity, and “liberty” was negated by the French reign of terror beginning in 1789 and violent mobs since then.

We, the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” may establish the entity We the People of the United States, at last, by amending the First Amendment so as to promote civic humble-integrity rather than Congressional religious-pride.

Fellow-citizens can have RHI by choosing to belong to female& male-human-being, and in the U.S. amending the Constitution accordingly.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-focus-of-Social-justice? by Steadman Blake

I don’t know and would suspect a social-justice warrior’s opinion.

A political philosophy from 5 thousand years ago suggests that of necessity& potential, female& male-human-being is the only species that can constrain chaos to the inhabitants of this world. The stories since then demonstrate the exponential consequences of female& male infidelity.

During the recent 5 thousand years humankind has researched physics in order to achieve exponential technology advancements and have neglected encouragement& facilitation to personal-constraint (in the self-interest of fidelity) in human-connections and connections with other entities; reliable friend to a pet, for example, and not littering as another. The consequence of personal humble-integrity is individual responsible-human-independence (RHI).

The personal self-interest in civic-integrity derives from mutual necessity& justice. However, during these 5 thousand years, the entity “ourselves and our Posterity” has not accepted& promoted the necessity& justice demand to constrain chaos in personal living. Consequently, we, the 2021 “ourselves and our Posterity” are experiencing exponential dependency: personal-demand for banal-satisfaction as entitlement rather than as earnings.

The wealthy few encourage dependency, in order to maintain egocentric materialism at the expense of gullible fellow citizens. The dwindling middle class dreams of joining the elites, exacerbating, in the U.S., the Chapter XI Machiavellian repetition of the fall of the Roman empire. Believers paying no attention to history hope the-God of human-choice-consequences works in cycles and will eventually usurp RHI. The U.S. ranks 4th in nations with wealth inequality: https://worldpopulationreview. com/country-rankings/wealth-inequality-by-country.

Perhaps I have addressed 2 views of “Social justice”. The first: egocentric materialism or the struggle by the rich to legally-control the supply side of ever increasing demand, exacerbated by people who feel entitled to the goods the wealthy promote. For example, the gender-change entrepreneurs could not care less about the outcomes: they just need the subjectable-customer or Joe Biden to pay for their services. In other words, government intervention in necessary& just capitalism is deadly. The second: the increasing $28.9 trillion national debt “ourselves and our Posterity” accommodate to attempt to avoid, change, or resist the 5-thousand-year-old suggestion to constrain tyranny in personal life style.

I write to learn, appreciate your question (see “appreciations” at promotethepreamble.blogspot.com) and hope for comments.

https://www.quora.com/What-political-and-cultural-factors-led-to-the-recent-polarization-of-the-conservative-liberal-divide-in-US-politics-and-how-if-at-all-can-this-polarization-be-reversed? by William Stark

I don’t know the-ineluctable-truth and feel I get closer when I attempt to answer brilliant questions like yours, Mr. Stark.

I understand homo sapiens emerged about 300 thousand years ago and mixed-homo died off about 10 thousand years ago. With perhaps 150 thousand years of language, grammar was invented about 5 thousand years ago. Grammar empowered races, civilizations, cultures, societies, and tribes to reason for mutual benefit, much as in trading goods. Philosophy, mythology, and polytheism had been developed to explain both physical and psychological experiences& observations.

About 5 thousand years ago, perhaps in Ur, in the Middle East, a polytheistic philosophy suggested, in my 2021 viewpoint, somewhat benefitting from 5 thousand years of human discovery: female& male-human-being is such a powerful species, it can independently provide order and prosperity to the living species in this world. This means the individual human being can control chaos in their way of living. Since living is a mutual-human experience, the individual may choose to develop the humble-integrity that is required for responsible-human-independence (RHI).

About a thousand years later, monotheism emerged. A few hundred years later, a monotheistic scribe, a Hebrew, reported the ancient suggestion as a blessing by the-God. The report is in Genesis 1:26-28. It does us no harm to accept Genesis 1 as pre-Eve& Adam and pre-Sarah& Abraham, since those stories come in subsequent literature. And they begin a human-debate over whose doctrinal-God will usurp RHI.

The writing and canonization of each continental Bible-canon stretches on to 1600 years ago, and Protestant competition appeared 500 years ago. The various scriptures record two major themes: first, male-dominant infidelity to spouse-hood for life, and second, organized avoidance, change, and resistance to the necessity& justice of RHI to establish peace in this world.

England, in the seventeenth century, perhaps the world’s great empire ever, constitutionally established a Protestant monarchy, codifying the Chapter XI Machiavellianism that empowers church-state partnership to pick fellow-citizens’ pockets with immunity.

When the uSA founders, in 1776 declared war for independence from England, they claimed authorization from “Nature’s God” rather than the English reformed-Catholic Trinity. They also rebuked John Locke’s rights to “life, liberty, and property [of Locke’s God, either Calvinist or Deist]” to claim “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. They took responsibility and separated church and state, intentionally or not, comporting to the 5 thousand year old suggestion: responsible-human-independence. The took responsibility for killing fellow-English subjects in red coats.

Eleven years later, framers sent to strengthen states-unity, upheld the 1776 Declaration’s independence, creating the world’s first proposal for voluntary domestic disciplines --- integrity, justice, peace, strength, and prosperity “in order to” encourage& facilitate RHI “to ourselves and our Posterity”. They left the choice to be religious to personal-privacy.

Alas, Protestant English loyalists negotiated a Bill of Rights to mimic England’s 1969 version. The 1791 First Amendment re-established factional-American-Protestantism to partner with Congress for “divinity” on par with Parliament. These 230 years later, the U.S. is divergent and the world awaits reform.

We, the “ourselves and our Posterity” of 2021 can amend the First Amendment so as to promote civic-integrity rather than civil-religion. The world could . . . would celebrate the awakening to a 5 thousand year old suggestion: RHI for peace as human-necessity& justice.

I write to learn, so please comment.

https://www.quora.com/unanswered/Do-you-agree-with-the-contention-of-the-ethical-egoism-theory-which-says-that-the-promotion-of-ones-own-good-is-in-accordance-with-morality? by Cristel Mae Anillo

I don’t know the-ineluctable-truth about ethical-egoism. Hoping to express then learn necessity& justice I share my opinion.

I think “ethical” is too vague, and egoism must be gaged by humble-integrity. That is, honesty is insufficient to a person’s self-interest. The human-being can independently develop& achieve integrity to necessity& justice. Some persons erroneously prefer honesty to integrity.

Human ethics is grounded in the laws of physics and its progeny --- mathematics, forces, chemistries, biology, psychology, imagination, fiction, lies --- indeed everything. Human-beings do not know the source of the laws of physics. Many think “God” but would not say it’s “the-God” or whatever controls the consequence of human actions; it could be chaos, but I doubt it; it could be a singularity – perhaps infinitely small& dense; it could be potential energy, but then, what sparked its conversion& reversibility to kinetic energy& mass? Regardless, the ethics of being a human being is to conform to the laws of physics& progeny. It’s beyond leading everyone to higher ground in a tsunami. For example, lies are ultimately disclosed when the-ineluctable-physics emerges: mortality is evident in blood; parenthood is proven by DNA; the decision to remain pregnant rests with the woman; surprise!! there were no weapons of mass destruction. The laws of physics cannot be avoided, changed, or resisted.

Consequently, the serenely-confident, mature human-being employed humble-integrity to gage personal-integrity during their journey. They retained the acceptance& assertion “I don’t know” when that is so. If they perceived necessity to know, they researched the-ineluctable-evidence and accepted the results. For example, is the sun a god that demands human sacrifice as some ancients thought? No: it is a natural nuclear reactor. Is my hope& comfort the-God? Perhaps my physics-opinion is acceptable and my doubt-reserve expresses humility acceptable to the-God.

What about the neighbor who contends that you hate the-God, because you don’t attend their church? As long as their opinion does not motivate harm/injury to any person or institution, I hope their private-pursuits are fruitful yet urge them to consider sufficient humility to possible assessment by the-God.

I think such humble-integrity is a matter of self-interest or ethical egoism according to the-ineluctable-evidence.

https://www.quora.com/What-can-be-construed-as-an-attack-on-democracy? by Aaron Hilliard

Social-democracy lessens extant successful government and promises ruin.

In a monarchy, the king can decide to respond to the majority who want necessity& justice, and keep the minorities who want economic-advantage at bay.

In a representative-republic, worthy legislators uphold law-enforcement and continually amend the constitution, in-order-to approach statutory justice as demanded by the continuum “ourselves and our Posterity”. That is, the people may gradually correct the errors of their ancestors and constrain new attacks on responsible-human-independence (RHI), always responding to necessity& justice.

In a democracy, a majority that accepts an erroneous economic philosophy may ruin the lives of the unfortunate minority. Thus, everyone is in jeopardy. A metaphorical mixed-herd of sheep with 10,000 following one leader vs 9,999 following another, if the majority-leader jumps off a cliff, the 50% who survive may not carry on as before.

In social-democracy --- nothing but minorities --- an erroneous collective can accelerate the path to ruin. Returning to the sheep metaphor, with the 10,000 divided into groups of 1/3, and the others similarly divided, 84% may leap off a cliff, then the 17% who survived perish by privation.

The 1787 U.S. intends a representative-republic. So far, most citizens accommodate chosen and appointed officials who are alien to the civic-faction We the People of the United States and care nothing about the majority: “ourselves and our Posterity”. The economic feasibility of this accommodation is lessening with each $ trillion national debt we aliens tack on our descendants and legal immigrants.

We, the “ourselves and our Posterity” of 2021 can stop the madness with three reforms: 1) amend the First Amendment so as to promote civic-integrity rather than civil-religion, 2) require both voters and legislators to prove membership in the faction We the People of the United States, and 3) reform the Supreme Court to appreciate the-ineluctable-evidence rather than opinion and precedent.

Please improve these proposals, and let’s get started with the reforms.

https://www.quora.com/unanswered/What-is-genuine-equality? by Djanjo Nakkuruzu Fortis

Mutually intending& achieving humble-integrity in responsible-human-independence (RHI).

Fortis:

Is this a feat humans can achieve in less than 200 years?

Phil Beaver

I think the reform can begin when 2/3 of civic-adults receive the message and personally-propose the necessary reform. That is, 2/3 of people consider the message, comprehend its benefits to them, and take responsibility to make it happen.

They will need their personal version of the commitment and trust I express as follow: We, the civic faction of our civilization, and spirituality/inspiration, and country, intend& practice 5 domestic disciplines —- integrity, justice, peace, strength, and prosperity, in-order-to encourage& facilitate responsible-human-independence (RHI) to ourselves, legal immigrants, and our descendants.

“Civic” means mutual-appreciation in human-connections. Since some persons arrogantly demand dependency, the civic-citizens pay the cost of law-enforcement and research to develop statutory-justice so as to continually lessen dependency —- indolence, abuse, infidelity, crime, tyranny, evil, and worse.

Once 2/3 of inhabitants are some stage in the acceptance of being a human-being, developing humble-integrity, and practicing RHI, I think an achievable better future will emerge in 84 years. I hope to witness the start.

 

https://www.quora.com/How-would-Aristotle-answer-the-question-if-virtue-leads-to-happiness-and-happiness-leads-to-better-laws-does-virtue-exist-in-everyone-naturally-and-if-not-can-virtue-be-taught? by Quora.com?

Aristotle (d. 322 BC) is less important than Ralph Waldo Emerson (d. 1882). Emerson wrote, in my view: Would you see the-God? Then look at me when you think as I do: both that the human-being’s purpose is to create virtue in circumstances never before encountered and the actual Jesus said so (“Divinity School Address”).

Furthermore, Emerson asserted that no one can persuade a person to choose the humble-integrity to necessity& justice that is required for RHI: responsible-human-independence (“Self-Reliance” and “Experience”).

https://www.quora.com/Is-individual-freedom-really-the-highest-good-we-can-strive-for? by Jordan Perkey

Freedom is bestowed by the winner in war or by the soldiers in mob violence. The-good, acting on necessity& justice, results from responsible-human-independence (RHI).

Neither government nor the-God will usurp the individual-human-being’s opportunity to constrain chaos in their way of connecting with others.

https://www.quora.com/Throughout-the-ages-has-acceptance-or-resistance-usually-been-the-general-reaction-to-new-ideas-about-established-truths? by Godspower Ibitayo

Google ngrams show that “ineluctable” was first used in English as translation of older words in 1571 and off and on until 1906 when low-usage departed the abscissa. Also, in 1906, “the ineluctable truth” was used more than “ineluctable truth” but declined to 60% of minimal-usage in 2018.

“Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”, merriam-webster.com. I use hyphens to invite the reader not to disassemble my expression.

Why aren’t we discussing the-ineluctable-truth rather than established “truths” or any usage that empowers the writer to avoid, change, or resist integrity?

https://www.quora.com/Should-youth-be-given-the-equal-rights-to-give-an-opinion-to-their-elders-Yes-or-no-then-why? by Cristine Gille

Necessity& justice demand that female&male-human-being constrain chaos in their way of living. When two persons discuss personal behavior so as to neither cause nor accommodate harm or injury to anyone, their opinions should be considered, regardless of chronological age.

The human-being has the individual power, the individual energy, and the individual authority (HIPEA) to develop humble-integrity. Some develop faster. However, not all persons pursue personal-integrity let alone gage it by humility to the-ineluctable-truth:  Some people attempt avoidance, change, or resistance.

It takes the human-body a quarter-century to complete the construction of the wisdom-building parts of the brain. It takes a few more years of experience& observation before a person should be a parent.

The psychologically mature person retained the attitude they appreciated as a child, thinking and publically declaring “I don’t know”, when that is so. However, survivors developed the practice of research when they need to know.

In any dialogue, the two parties can be alert for statements that are true to their experiences& observations. The considerate adult readily shares stories about loss and misery that taught them humility. Typically, youth has encountered fewer such incidents, and by listening to the stories can both affirm the lesson and prevent future suffering.

Regardless of age, the person who pursues personal-behavior to satisfy necessity& justice knows when to listen.

https://www.quora.com/unanswered/Is-personalism-a-good-thing-Should-personalism-be-established-from-an-early-age? by Madelaine Claire

Ms Claire, thank you for introducing me to the topic: personalism. Eventually, I may return to it to list my reactions to at least a dozen theories “difficult to define as a philosophical and theological movement”;  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personalism. I’m glad to learn 1) the Thomas Aquinas view “the person is a good towards which the only proper and adequate attitude is love”; I’ll grant “consideration” and if possible “appreciation”, without invoking love, a mutual practice. And 2) that the wiki article refers to plato.stanford.edu.

After skimming the wiki article, my first impression is YES, under Phil Beaver’s assumptions.

And the first theory to consider is a political philosophy some 5 thousand-years-old, reported as a theology by Hebrew scholars 3 thousand-years-ago, in Genesis 1: 26-28. Reading with my sparse comprehension of 5 thousand years’ research& discovery by humankind, female&male-human-being can& must independently provide order& prosperity to the living species and to this world.

I think a philosopher in Sumer, imagining human-necessity& justice speculated that humankind is the only species that can provide peace on earth:  Neither government nor the-God will usurp humankind’s responsibility. Possible impact of this thought is far reaching. First, it suggests that the individual can& must perfect personal behavior in order to positively impact the living species. Second, persons who choose to perfect their behavior must constrain fellow-citizens who choose dependency: indolence, abuse, infidelity, crime, tyranny, evil, and worse.

In other words, each newborn can be reared to choose to be a human-being rather than one of the opposites: “soul”, “reincarnation”, animal, plant, or mineral. And fellow-citizens who choose a dependency must take care to neither initiate nor accommodate harm/injury in order to prevent accusation, possible indictment, and possible subjugation to law-enforcement, even if research is proffering revisions toward statutory-justice.

I write to learn and appreciate your teaching today in the post “appreciations” at promotethepreamble.blogspot.com.

I appreciate comments, too.

Law professors

https://lawliberty.org/forum/an-american-story-but-how/? And Law & Liberty | Facebook

Like Gamble regarding McClay, I’d like to write a complete essay to respond.

However, only one point stands out: my response to Gamble’s “As a Christian . . . I don’t look to the City of Man to give me transcendence or to tell me the meaning of life.”

We non-Christians don’t accept “being a Christian” as justification for arrogance against human-beings.

The typical Christian is focused on the shadows on the cave-wall and cannot benefit from the metaphysical Jesus. In their canonization of books by the year 405 AD, the churches have Jesus saying key-ideas like “before Abraham was born I AM”, “render unto Caesar . . . “, “be perfect” during life as the-God is in heaven, the Son of God is not the messiah, hate people who are not my disciples, and those who hate you hate both me and the-God.

Counting it deplorable Old Testament writing, Christians don’t ponder Genesis 1’s message. It is older than Eve& Adam, Sarah& Abraham, Bathsheba& David.

We have no idea the intentions of the 5-thousand year old political philosophy expressed in Genesis 1, because it came to us as Hebrew scholarship, 2-thousand years later or 3-thousand years ago. Furthermore, we cannot imagine the Hebrew scribe’s intentions. It is more important in 2021 to consider Genesis 1 in light of the physical and psychological discoveries in the recent 5 thousand years of homo sapiens’ 300 thousand years self-development, language perhaps 150 thousand years ago, grammar perhaps 5 thousand years ago, and monotheism perhaps 4 thousand years ago. In my 2021 view, Genesis 1:26-28 contains the message: female& male-human-being can independently provide order& prosperity to the living species and to this world. To the individual, it means they can constrain chaos in their way of living. I imagine an ancient culture deducing this suggestion from necessity& justice at 98.3% of the journey to 2021-representative homo sapiens. Due to the responsible-human-independence (RHI) Jesus may have authored, we, the “ourselves and our Posterity” of 2021 are responsible for peace in this world.

There’s no doubt the canonized Jesus represents political arguments among polytheists, the Greeks, Zoroastrians, Russians, Arabs, Ethiopians, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, and beguilingly more factional-groups. In other words, the historical Jesus is misrepresented by the scribes writing for the competing religions. And for what are the religions competing? A doctrine that will persuade the-God --- whatever controls the consequence of human choices --- to usurp their tribe’s RHI. No one knows the-God, and those who attempt either to avoid, to change, or to resist that entity beg ruin.

My life is littered with accusation of heresy, when I always perceived I was open minded. Three young Christians open my heart to their hopes and comforts, and help me see in my fourth quarter century that I have always had an open heart my Christian parents and community could not accommodate. I hope to change the Christian perspective to RHI rather than dependence on Jesus’ body --- to embrace his metaphysical message: the human-being has the potential to perfect their person before death.

I read and write to share and learn, so please comment.

Twitter

https://lithub.com/how-truth-became-a-controversial-subject-in-classrooms and Molly Castner, @mcastner1

I think a better future is achievable if students learn "ineluctable", available since 1571, and research to discover& re-discover the-ineluctable-truth.

To assist, teachers can encourage& facilitate the student's acceptance& public-declaration "I don't know" when that is so, with follow-up to discover the-ineluctable-evidence, positive or negative. If necessity& justice is at stake, the student may follow with a well-grounded opinion or if under physical attack, adequate defense. For example, does the-God exist? I don't know but hope the view I nourish is acceptable to the-God.

One other point hot on my mind this morning: there is no place in this world for hate: defense, YES; hate, NO. The person cannot know without appreciating fellow human-beings. Some choose not to be a human-being yet may reform.

To Caleb: The problem is that "dozens of geniuses working on each other's work to reach [ widespread ignorance]” of the 450 year-old word "ineluctable" is the cause of today's chaos. Scholars prefer "truth" so they can express their construct rather than "the-ineluctable-truth" so humankind can discover it.

To Babbete and to Jan Priddy:

I can't reply to only one of you and Babette without slighting one. I'll modify quotes for emphasis on my earlier suggestion about un-hiding the 450 year-old word "ineluctable".

Babette wrote "We are victims of [our] implicit endorsement . . . of only one ultimately "true" view . . . prevents [the world's] balanced examination . . .".

The scholar's power to construct "fundamental truth" in order to aid tyranny over the minds of human-beings is lessened when educators encourage& facilitate students to pursue the-ineluctable-evidence and the instruments of perception by which the-ineluctable-truth may be pursued. Discovery of ineluctable-evidence routinely crushes "critical thought".

And Priddy provided a perfect example by citing flat earth believers (precedence conservers).

Shockingly, defense of precedence rather than the-ineluctable-truth bemuses our Supreme Court's erroneous pursuit of "the rule of law". While justices preserve Judeo-Christianity and Blackstone, necessity& justice, or the laws of physics and its progeny, are draining U.S. fiscal viability, now approaching $30 trillion in debt. With only 4,000 newborn citizens per year, and increasing the debt, each newborn faces $7 million federal debt. The illegal immigrants don't know it, but they're risking their lives for a dream that died 68 years ago.

We, the 2021 "ourselves and our Posterity" can& must stop the madness by amending the First Amendment to encourage& facilitate the humble-integrity needed for responsible-human-independence (RHI) rather than Congressional-civil-religion. Then, establish the entity We the People of the United States, those who practice the 5 domestic disciplines for RHI, the preamble's intentions, as people licensed to vote and to hold local, state, and federal officers accountable under the-ineluctable-evidence.

The nation's teachers are the perfect society to lead this U.S. reform. Humble-integrity is in the individual's self-interest, and the tyrants and Marxists cannot resist power, even alien money and violence, if the people don't constrain them.

 

Twitter: Hello, Ms Castner, I read, write, & listen, to learn from fellow-citizens, during my 4th to 8th decades. I think a better future is achievable if students learn "ineluctable", available since 1571, and research to discover& re-discover the-ineluctable-truth.

Phil Beaver does not “know.” He trusts in and is committed to the-objective-truth which can only be discovered. Conventional wisdom has truth founded on reason, but it obviously does not work.

Phil is agent for A Civic People of the United States, a Louisiana, education non-profit corporation. See online at promotethepreamble.blogspot.com, and consider essays from the latest and going back as far as you like.