If England separates church from state, "independent" U.S. could mimic them again

 Phil Beaver seeks to collaborate on the-objective-truth, which can only be discovered. The comment box below invites readers to write.

"Civic" refers to citizens who collaborate for individual happiness with civic integrity more than for the city, state, nation, or society.

Consider writing a personal paraphrase of the preamble, which offers fellow citizens mutual appreciation:  For discussion, I convert the preamble’s predicate phrases to nouns and paraphrase it for my interpretation of its proposal as follows We the People of the United States proffer & practice 5 public disciplines —- integrity, justice, safety, strength, and prosperity, “in order to” encourage & facilitate responsible-human-independence “to ourselves and our Posterity”. I want to improve my interpretation by listening to other citizens and their interpretations yet would preserve the original, 1787, text, unless it is amended by the people.

It seems the Supreme Court occasionally refers to it, and no one has challenged whether or not the preamble is a legal statement. The fact that it changed this independent country from a confederation of states to a union of states deliberately managed by disciplined fellow citizens convinces me the preamble is legal. Equity in opportunity and outcome is shared by the people who collaborate for human justice.

Every citizen has equal opportunity to either trust-in and collaborate-on the goals stated in the preamble or be dissident to the agreement. I think 2/3 of citizens try somewhat to use the preamble but many do not articulate commitment to the goals. However, it seems less than 2/3 understand that “posterity” implies grandchildren. “Freedom of religion,” which fellow citizens have no means to discipline, oppresses freedom to develop integrity.

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If England separates church from state, “independent” U.S. could mimic them again

The U.S. intentions, expressed by the signers of the 1787 U.S. Constitution (39 signers of 55 framers), included separation of church from state. The civic-citizen would manage both their state and the nation, keeping pursuit of religious hope& comfort to adult privacy rather than public imposition. However, at least 3 of 9 ratifying states wanted to specify freedom of religion and other rights included in England’s 1689 Bill of Rights. Ratifying states agreed that the first Congress would amend the 1787 Constitution with a Bill of Rights.

Congress, a political body rather than the independent delegation that framed the world’s first republic with constitutional authorization by the people. Congress devised freedom of religion to themselves, as stated in the First Amendment. Congress wanted to mimic Parliament, which has 26 seats in the upper chamber assigned to the Church of England. That lends Parliament the appearance of divinity.

Civic-citizens in the U.S. can and may amend the First Amendment so as to terminate the Congressional tyranny. I suggest the following:  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or [promoting] the free exercise thereof.

England has its own problems with religious canon that conflicts with statutory justice. If they reformed first, the U.S. could mimic them again. Ironically, U.S. fellow-citizens prefer liberty to be ruled above independence to responsibly pursue happiness.

Quora

quora.com/unanswered/Which-book-describe-situation-of-human-rights-in-the-world? by Oxygen

Goodreads. com offers: Shelves > Human Rights > Human Rights Books Showing 1-50 of 7,673. Plato.stanford. Edu lists 1797 articles. I think self-reliance to civic-integrity is more effective. “Civic” refers to reliability in human connections& transactions.

History suggests that the human-being can& may develop civic-integrity. In a civic-culture, each person has the opportunity to choose: independently, neither originate nor accommodate harm to-or-from any person or institution. Some persons choose a dependency.

Dependencies include arrogant-religion, indolence, crime, evil, and diabolical behavior. Religious beliefs are private, adult-pursuits rather than civic issues. Education departments can& may be reformed so as to practice, facilitate& encourage children to transition to human-being, rather than accept something less: mineral, vegetable, animal, or spirit.

The civic-citizens can& must constrain dependent fellow-citizens, in order to facilitate& encourage dependents’ reform. Remedies I imagine include education, public service to earn the cost of living, limited incarceration and public service that offers education to reform, long-term incarceration with public service (education only on urgent request), and termination, respectively. The civic-citizens fund pursuing statutory-justice. That is, written-law and enforcement based on the-ineluctable-evidence. “Ineluctable” means “not to be avoided, changed, or resisted”.

The human individual has the opportunity, the power, the energy, and the authority (HIOPEA) to choose civic-integrity. Neither the-High-God nor government can usurp the newborn infant’s ability to choose.

The newborn infant has the right to be informed about choosing between life with responsible-human-independence (RHI) or with dependency.

quora.com/What-is-the-importance-of-value-education? by Cruel Summer

“Value education” misrepresents the human-being-opportunity and thus is a negative inculcation under a larger imposition:  discipline by higher authority. Together, “education” and “values” express authority that the student did not grant and their future adult finds insufficient. In practice, at the behest of alien-elites, the educator attempts to impose obsolete disciplines they neither practice nor value. The human-being is too powerful to fall for this ruse. So why does the folly survive?

The first well-documented civilization, Sumer, existing from 10,000 to 4,000 years ago vaguely perceived the principle that polytheism could not provide order and prosperity in Mesopotamia. Fellow-citizens can& must constrain both internal and external chaos. Their kingdoms developed primitive statutory-justice.

Their institutions practiced, facilitated& encouraged responsible-human-independence (RHI) to life on earth, leaving other worlds to the Gods. Citizens in need (such as widows and orphans) received aid, and willful dependents, informed by law-codes, suffered penalties for any harm they perpetrated. Erroneously, some of the penalties incapacitated the offender, for example, taking eye for eye. And the violence of slavery was taken for granted! The civic-citizens had to bear the costs. Herein, “civic” means reliable connections and transactions in living.

Practically, violence is defeat, and a civic-people can& may pursue statutory-law that invites dependents to reform. The innocently erroneous may reform on education. The criminal may earn opportunity to reform on labor, in order to restore loss or compensate for injury. The evil person may be incarcerated with forced-labor until they request tutoring to reform. The diabolical offender may be terminated. The progression of offense seems like: erroneous, lawless, reprehensible, and irredeemable, respectively. However, the more profound reform is from arbitrary-law to statutory-justice.

Economics is essential to statutory-justice. Civic-citizens must fund statutory-justice, and cost cannot exceed what civic-citizens can& may earn. This physical principle was obvious to the Sumerians, so slaves, laborers, craftsmen, entrepreneurs, administrators& royalty collaborated until the Babylonians conquered them and improved Sumerian inventions.

Unfortunately, subsequent civilizations constructed doctrinal-Gods that would provide their “kingdom” on earth:  Their God was a powerful God – the High God. Consequently, civic-citizens wait for their-God to provide, rather than collaborate for RHI. Local elites who were alien to RHI perceived opportunity to partner with the doctrinal-God, in order to control believers. Each tribe spoke of their doctrinal-God as the-High-God. Ironically, monotheism increased chaos.

A remedy for this dilemma is to educate the people to self-interest in the civic-integrity that is required for RHI, leaving the mystery of the-High-God to privacy. With this approach, RHI is a comprehensive, mutual practice rather than an imposition. And civic-citizens know that they collaborate for comprehensive-safety& security so that each person can& may responsibly pursue the happiness they perceive rather than submit to a person’s or an institution’s arrogance.

The framers (55), especially the signers (39), of the 1787 U.S. Constitution proffered an RHI-culture. Civic-citizens in their states would establish and develop local-constitutional-justice and authorize& limit a national government – a constitutional republic. The civic-citizens, We the People of the United States, intentionally maintain integrity, justice, safety, strength, and prosperity, “in order to” practice, facilitate& encourage responsible-human-independence ‘to ourselves and our Posterity”.

The alien-elites in the First Congress, seated in 1789, imposed freedom of religion to Congress, mimicking the English Parliament’s partnership with the Church of England, with 26 seats to clergy. The civic-people of the U.S. can& must remedy this tyranny by amending the First Amendment. I suggest the following:  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or [promoting] the free exercise thereof.

              Domestic and foreign alien-elites are influencing the U.S. to sustain England-mimicking church& state partnership, in order to bemuse civic-citizens from reforming to the 1787 U.S. Constitution’s intentions: RHI. So far, the civic-citizens accommodate self-tyranny.

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quora.com/What-has-stopped-many-people-from-believing-that-politics-can-be-a-force-for-good? by Graham C Lindsay

I speculate that theism, competitive mystery respecting the-High-God, has reached the divergent chaos that was needed for civic-citizens to accept that they are solely, independently capable of pursuing comprehensive-safety& security to life and to the earth. “Civic” herein expresses reliable connections& transactions between persons. Civic-integrity, rather than force, empowers the-good, and humankind rather than the-High-God can& may constrain dependency.

The dependencies include religious arrogance, indolence, crime, tyranny, evil, and worse. The human individual has the opportunity, the power, the energy, and the authority (HIOPEA) to choose dependence. Many do. The civic-citizen can& must practice, facilitate& encourage responsible-human-independence (RHI), in order to constrain the consequences of dependent fellow-citizens.

Meriam-webster online’s fifth usage for “politics” is “the total complex of relations between people living in society”. In a civic-culture, statutory-justice is pursued in the institutions and infrastructure that support fellow-citizens’ opportunities to responsibly pursue the happiness they perceive rather than to yield-to society. Dependent fellow-citizens may experience& observe the self-interest of RHI and can& may reform.

These principles were observed and developed by the succession of Sumer kingdoms between 10,000 and 4,000 years ago, when monotheism emerged and began to dominate political philosophies. Ironically, tribal constructions of deities distracted humankind from personal responsibility. Some people continuously search for higher power. Monotheism created chaos that became divergent.

I know of only one proffered government that could develop a civic-culture. The 1787 U.S. Constitution proposes local, statutory government by civic-citizens in their states. They also authorize& constrain a nation to “ourselves and our Posterity”, including legal immigrants. The U.S.-republican-form-of-government protects Posterity from democracy. The Constitution intentionally consigns the mystery of the-High-God to the individual citizen’s privacy. Congress unconstitutionally granted itself freedom of religion when it began to operate for 11 states in 1789, and has thereby prevented establishment of the intended U.S., now 50 states.

The civic-citizens, We the People of the United States, can& may reform Congress by amending the First Amendment. I suggest the following:  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or [promoting] the free exercise thereof.

Ancient political philosophers pursued political philosophies to serve humankind. After monotheism became dominant, politics turned from “the total complex of relations between people” to constructing power for “our tribe”. Ours is the-High-God.! A civic-people can& may effect reform. Any nation can mimic the 1787 U.S. Constitution’s proffered RHI.

quora.com/What-is-the-essence-of-justice? by Jo Van den Broeck

First, humankind is independently responsible for comprehensive-safety& security to life on earth and to the earth. Inhabitants divide themselves on this duty to self. People who accept the duty enjoy responsible-human-independence (RHI) and constrain dependents.

Second, members of the RHI culture, civic-citizens, neither initiate nor accommodate harm to-or-from any person or association. Agents of harm invite subjugation to the law, and the civic-citizens pursue statutory-justice: written law and specified enforcement processes that are positively amended each time injustice is discovered.

The nation that practices, facilitates, and encourages RHI for statutory-justice has an achievable better future.

The U.S. can be the first nation to establish RHI. The civic-citizens, We the People of the United States as specified by the 1787 U.S. Constitution, can& may take the first step, as follows, below.

The tyranny of Congressional freedom of religion can be terminated by amending the First Amendment. I suggest the following: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or [promoting] the free exercise thereof. Perhaps if England eliminates the Church of England’s 26 seats in Parliament, the U.S. will follow suit. However, I would prefer the U.S. to establish independence independently.

The human being has the right to the opportunity to develop the civic-integrity that is required for RHI, in order to responsibly pursue the happiness they perceive rather than submit to someone else’s vision for them. RHI is possible with separation of church from state.

quora.com/Do-artists-have-to-bear-ethical-responsibility-If-so-how-do-you-think-it-should-be-done? by quora

My answer begins with the opinion that “have to” and “ethics” is each misleading. The law addresses responsibility for harm.

First, “have-to-bear” occurs only if a civic-people call attention to a perceived harm and accuse the artist. In that case, there is 1) a perception of harm and 2) statutory law to be adjudicated. Thus, it is a matter of civil or criminal process more than of ethics.

Second, if the civic-people accuse the artist, they must show harm to a person or association and the artist’s cause of the harm. The artist must answer to the charge. If the artist disproves the case under due process, the accusers must pay the process costs.

For example, consider the art of poisonous snake handling, sometimes, in order to prove faith in Jesus. Parents orphan 2 children when snakes bite both mother and father. The court interviews both grandparent-families and awards custody to non-snake-handlers. The judge charges a snake-handling family with court costs and limits their visitation-rights.

One purpose of a marriage-license is to hold parents accountable for the children they either conceive or adopt. Application of the law is based on statutes rather than hypothetical ethics. It seems unhelpful to suggest artists have no legal liability when expressions cause harm.

I like my state’s freedom of expression clause, which is unlimited on both expression and responsibility (Louisiana Article I, Section 7).

quora.com/unanswered/What-are-social-and-environmental-responsibility-purposes? by Lizzy Nyambeni

The responsibility, in modern terms, separation of church from state, was nearly recognized by the Sumerians, who developed a civilization between 11,000 and 4,000 years ago. They seemed to conclude that their array of universal Gods and each city-God could not pursue the necessities& justice to life on earth. Their kings developed successive codes-of-law so as to take responsibility for order& prosperity on earth. Their ultimate code is attributed to their conqueror, the Babylonian-king, Hammurabi. It is an ancient claim to responsible-human-independence (RHI) from the Gods.

These 5,500 years after Sumer, humankind knows exponentially more about how to practice, facilitate, and encourage RHI. However, no culture has established a system to develop RHI, so the necessary language, education departments, laws, journalism, and system of government have not advanced.

About 70% of humankind is bemused by competitive theisms, and the typical doctrine is that their higher power, usually a God, will eventually usurp RHI. Supposedly, if believers pass on to the next generation the fervent supplication for comprehensive-safety& security on earth, it will be delivered. The consequence of theism is the divergent chaos the world suffers today.

I know of one proposal to develop RHI. Intention is expressed in the 1787 U.S. Constitution, which 11 of 13 states ratified on the condition that the first Congress would add at least a bill of rights to mimic the 1689 English Bill of Rights. It guarantees a Christian monarchy. The English Parliament reserves 26 seats in the upper chamber for Church of England agents. To lend itself parallel “divinity” Congress unconstitutionally granted itself freedom of religion.

To restore the U.S. proffered RHI, civic-citizens, We the People of the United States as specified in the 1787 U.S. Constitution, can& must amend the First Amendment. I suggest the following: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or [promoting] the free exercise thereof.

It would be ironic for England’s voters to effect this reform – separation of church from state -- and let a civic-people of the U.S. mimic the future England. Perhaps another former British colony will act first to establish, practice, facilitate, and encourage RHI.

Also on Facebook, slightly modified.

Law professors

lawliberty.org/book-review/the-rise-of-hindu-nationalism-in-india/

I routinely write that a civic people of the U.S., We the People of the United States, can& must amend the First Amendment so as to terminate Congressional freedom of religion at the people’s expense. Apparently a similar reform could help India pursue the rule of statutory justice rather than legislative-religious-freedom; that is, constrain Indian parliament’s power to persecute a civic person because of religious preference.

The U.S. and India seem to have political parallels. Each can& may accommodate ethnic and cultural diversities they govern. Each declared independence from England: the U.S. from 1763 until they ratified the 1783 Treaty of Paris then India from 1857 to 1947. Both England-influenced nations are embroiled in cultural wars derived from the advent and divergent chaos of monotheism, about 4,000 years ago, concentrated on England’s reformed-Catholic church. Each is an attractive destination for political asylum.

The U.S. suffers legislative freedom of religion, in particular, Congressional freedom to impose Judeo-Christianity rather than pursue civic-integrity. The U.S. window of independence from Anglo-American-tradition lasted from September 17, 1787 (when the draft U.S. Constitution was signed by 39 of 55 delegates from 12 of 13 free& independent states) until June 21, 1787, when 9 of 13 states agreed to operate the U.S. under the 1787 draft, provided the first Congress would modify the draft with a Bill of Rights to mimic the 1689 English Bill of Rights. The 1689 document codified a Protestant monarchy. England’s parliament has 26 upper-chamber-seats assigned to the Church of England, a reformed-Catholic institution. In the 1791 Bill of Rights, Congress granted itself freedom of religion at the expense of the people. The U.S. operates under Anglo-American, Judeo-Christianity, meaning Old Testament vs New Testament conflict.

Consequently, responsible-human-independence (RHI) is neither practiced, facilitated, nor encouraged. Government granted liberty& freedom are no substitutes for the civic-integrity that is required for RHI.

Whereas extant Bible canon begin with Genesis 1, a Sumerian political philosophy. Verse 28 holds that humankind is solely responsible for order& posterity to living species and to the earth. The rest of the Bible illustrates the consequences of avoiding, changing, or resisting the individual duty to constrain chaos in personal ways of living. It is arrogant to attempt to persuade Jesus to usurp human-being’s responsibility. In 5,000 years, no political regime has operated to comport to the Genesis 1:28 demand for comprehensive-safety& security on earth.

The political developments in India followed typical struggle between each: constructed monotheisms, the ancient polytheisms, philosophical morality, and civic-integrity. India has a secular constitution, and is a popular destination for immigrants seeking asylum.

In 1919, the Indian parliament issued a citizenship route to immigrants from Bangladesh, Afghanistan and Pakistan for six religions -- four Indian Dharma; Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and Jainism – plus Zoroastrianism, plus Christianity, both developed in Mesopotamia along with Judaism and Islam. The omitted& neglected Muslims protest. For example, “. . . the Bhim Army, a political party of Dalits who represent the Hinduism’s lowest caste” protested on January 17, 2020 in New Delhi; apnews.com/article/hinduism-asia-pacific-religion-india-immigration-62b284e221c9e857d9623de897ec3049. I do not know how the law impacts Jews; france24.com/en/20191211-india-hindu-nationalist-pass-controversial-citizenship-bill-secular-violent-protest-muslim-islam-neighbour-prime-minister-narendra-modi.

Christian nationalism keeps the U.S. in turmoil, and Hindu nationalism upsets India. Muslim assimilation seems a general concern in the west. England declares that Sharia law does not supersede common law, and the actual-reality is under study. Overlooked by the rest of the world is that the English parliament has guaranteed seats for the Church of England: Parliament has a fixed religion, and civic-citizens of England never had religious independence. Muslim assimilation is problematic in Australia. Some European-Canadians don’t think Islam can assimilate there: eurocanadians.ca/2021/02/why-muslims-cant-assimilate-to-canada.html. Muslim assimilation is a general concern that does not negate the religious grounds of nationalism in the U.S. and in India.

The civic-people of the U.S. can& may amend the First Amendment. I suggest: “"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or [promoting] the free exercise thereof".

I appreciate the above referenced book review that gave me a glimpse of modern religious legislation in India and motivation to consider other countries. Citizens need separation of church from state in order to pursue statutory-justice.

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facebook.com/phil.beaver.52, September 1, 2022

Meta-: coming after or later.

[metaphysics]: reasonable discussion after physical discovery. Fidelity to the-laws-of-physics is essential to reliability: metaphysics must comport to interconnected laws-of-physics.

Example: entrepreneurs discover they can manipulate a person's body to change sexual functions. Ignoring the physics of psychology, they call it “gender choice”. If they can persuade some customers, the entrepreneurs can get rich. But the customer will not agree to a lush initial bill and a lifetime of special care.

They approach alien-elite politicians, who are always interested in 1) expanding government and 2) generating new cash-flow streams they can tax. Alien-elites care not if the revenue stream is destructive to inhabitants and citizens.

The voluntary-slaves to the enterprise discover they were duped, and a whole new legal practice develops: Gender-change Failure. Meanwhile, the entrepreneur advertises new technology to reverse body damage from futile attempts to change gender. The alien-elites print more money to sustain the ruse, repeating the lie that Posterity will take care of the debt.

What’s wrong? Monotheism separates people from their personal-interest. Adults keep praying to their personal-God for relief from the alien-elites, not admitting that the-High-God assigned to them lifetime duty for comprehensive-safety& security "to ourselves and our Posterity", quoting the preamble to the U.S. Constitution.

We’re in the metaphase of 1787’s proposal for responsible-human-independence in the U.S. Today’s divergent-chaos is evidence that alien-elites cannot and therefore will not usurp the individual’s opportunity to choose lifetime civic-integrity instead of indefinite religious hope. It is not too late for civic-citizens, We the People of the United States, to reform. Individuals must amend the First Amendment so as to defend civic-integrity rather than Congressional freedom of religion.

facebook.com/phil.beaver.52, August 27, 2022

In my 79th year, I ask:  What did the independent Jesus suggest? That is, independent of philosophy, polytheism, the several Abrahamic religions, God, the Holy Spirit, Satan, and soul, what civic-advice can& may I glean from the metaphysical Jesus? “Civic” means human-being focused on comprehensive-safety& security to life on earth. “Metaphysical” implies accepting the mystery of Jesus’s status: past, present& future.

I'm starting a list of Jesus’ civic influences to the generations, and request you, reader& fellow citizen, to add to the list. I’ll start accumulating “Independent Jesus’ civic influence” on my block, understandtheknowledge.blogspot. com, where you can also comment.

First, by affirming if not authoring Genesis 1:28, Jesus suggested that Phil Beaver can& may perfect his unique person before my death. My opportunity is to practice, facilitate, and encourage civic-integrity. Integrity means reliability in every human connection and transaction.

In case the first left fellow-citizens without a thought, try a second. Challenged in Matthew 19 to approve divorce, Jesus clarified, “. . . a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” Some people overlook “man will leave . . . be united to . . . one flesh”.

facebook.com/gcleve.wright/posts/3651497241737177?comment_id=1065905920962807

After 234 years' development of the divergent chaos we are in, there's crying need for reform.

In the world, there are 45,000 sects that claim to represent Jesus Christ.

In my 79th year, I have begun to ask: what did the independent Jesus suggest? That is, independent of Christianity, Judaism, and God, what advice do I glean from Jesus? I'm starting a list, and request you, reader& fellow citizen, to add to it.

First, by affirming if not authoring Genesis 1:28, Jesus suggested that Phil Beaver can& may perfect my unique person before my death by intending to do so and practicing civic-integrity: no mistake repetition.

facebook.com/gcleve.wright/posts/3647647278788840?from_close_friend=1 August 22, 2022

Cleve, thank you for your creativity and action.

What we suspected in 2016 but could not prove is that a devout Christian cannot be trusted as Vice-President (or President). Pence removed all doubt . . . forever.

The principle extends to all elected offices and all religious beliefs including atheism. If a person cannot abide the rule of law, because it conflicts with their religious doctrine, they cannot serve the U.S. constitutional-republic. It's up to the voters to uphold statutory justice.

Here's my reasoning: Genesis 1:28 proffers the actual-reality that humankind solely can provide order and prosperity to life on earth and to the earth.

Jesus at read if not authored Genesis 1:28's message, and said many things that support the consequential principles. For example, be perfect in the image of your maker, appreciation of life on earth existed before Abraham was born, render unto Caesar to aid order and prosperity, a man shall unite to his wife for life, the human who does not work smart will lose what they have, and many more civic principles.

Pence claims he's had Jesus in his heart since age 18, yet he practices Christian doctrine rather than follows Jesus's civic advice for all times. Jesus's advice holds to all generations. There are 45,000 Christian sects and as many Christian doctrine as there are believers.

Lastly, if you are an Alinsky-Marxist organizer (AMO), you need not divide the enemy: They use Christianity to divide themselves. Behold what Pence is doing today: Everything he can to keep Trump out of office. And he is motivated by millions of Christians with “more erroneous religious beliefs”, mainly “God is on our side” so we can’t be wrong. It should be obvious by now that the-High-God does not agree with Christianity, a divided cause.

It's alright for a human being to establish and nourish a religion, in order to provide comfort and hope against the unknowns of human living. However, it is not alright for them to let that religion steal their lifetime, a civic journey that requires them to constrain dependents including religious arrogants, sloths, criminals, tyrants, and evils.

I hope Trump& Desantis team up . . . I think. We'll see.

Meanwhile, the civic-citizens, We the People of the United States, can& must amend the First Amendment to: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or [promoting] the free exercise thereof".

If you like this message, share it, to help effect U.S. reform, starting with removal of Congressional freedom of religion.

Phil Beaver does not “know.” He trusts in and is committed to the-objective-truth which can only be discovered. Conventional wisdom has truth founded on reason, but it obviously does not work.

Phil is agent for A Civic People of the United States, a Louisiana, education non-profit corporation. See online at promotethepreamble.blogspot.com, and consider essays from the latest and going back as far as you like.